Altering vs cleaning

[Fred]

This has probably been discussed a few times already....

At what point is "cleaning" a card not considered "altering" a card.

For example, would it be considered altering a card if you can use water and a towel to clean off obvious smudges of dirt or other surface crud? At what point do you consider "cleaning" to be unacceptable?

Obviously, filling/adding in color (for example the back of an N300) is not acceptable. Filling a hole or adding paper is not acceptable.

"Bleaching" is not acceptable, or at least I don't think it is.

Any comments?

[Leon]

Everyone has their own ideas. Many, such as myself, draw a line at anything more than the most subtle cleaning. I use water, Qtip and a Hi Polymer eraser. It is an art eraser that crumbles easily and is much better than ordinary erasers to help prevent damage to paper when it's rubbed. Under $2 delivered

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...eraser&_sop=15

.

[frankbmd]

Car Wash vs Body Shop

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Fred

At what point is "cleaning" a card not considered "altering" a card.

For example, would it be considered altering a card if you can use water and a towel to clean off obvious smudges of dirt or other surface crud? At what point do you consider "cleaning" to be unacceptable?

"Bleaching" is not acceptable, or at least I don't think it is.

Any comments?

Towel and water, okay. Towle and chems, not okay (I think that's the prevailing wisdom)

[drcy]

Not expressing my personal opinion, but a common rule is when you are removing basic things that are nor original to the card that are ON the card, such as dirt, paper and glue. I say ON, because it gets tricky when, for example, you're using harsh chemicals to remove ink writing (that, obviously, isn't original to the card) that has seeped into the cardstock.

You can alter a card if you want-- there's no law against it--, so long as you clearly identify the alteration at sale.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Car Wash vs Body Shop

Agree. That sums it up well.

[ullmandds]

While we've discussed this topic numerous times on here...and we all have our own opinions on the topic. The reality is that any "alteration" that cannot be detected is just fine.

[jcc6252]

Here is a recently soaked example using warm water and blotting with a paper towel. The "Before" is a little exaggerated, thanks to HA's darkened scans. You would think such a prestigious AH could present more accurate scans. Anyway, I don't see a problem with this cleaning.

[irv]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

Here is a recently soaked example using warm water and blotting with a paper towel. The "Before" is a little exaggerated, thanks to HA's darkened scans. You would think such a prestigious AH could present more accurate scans. Anyway, I don't see a problem with this cleaning.

I have never cleaned a card before, but I am surprised to see that staining came out that easy with just warm water and a paper towel?

I assumed staining, compared to just dirt, embedded itself deeper into the card stock where a simple soak/paper towel wouldn't remove it?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Towel and water, okay. Towle and chems, not okay (I think that's the prevailing wisdom)

lol

[JollyElm]

To me, it's all about motive. If I think one of my cards could use a soaking to get rid of some gunk, then I'll give it a go...BUT...if I'm thinking of doing it to otherwise 'trick' a potential buyer of said card, that's when you start seeing signs for the ole slippery slope.

[jcc6252]

Originally Posted by irv

I have never cleaned a card before, but I am surprised to see that staining came out that easy with just warm water and a paper towel?

I assumed staining, compared to just dirt, embedded itself deeper into the card stock where a simple soak/paper towel wouldn't remove it?

I think it depends on the substance. Dirt, grime, or even gum residue is more likely to come out .vs. tobacco juice or toning.

I believe most water soakings will not change the technical grade, just make the card more presentable.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

To me, it's all about motive. If I think one of my cards could use a soaking to get rid of some gunk, then I'll give it a go...BUT...if I'm thinking of doing it to otherwise 'trick' a potential buyer of said card, that's when you start seeing signs for the ole slippery slope.

Well said

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

To me, it's all about motive. If I think one of my cards could use a soaking to get rid of some gunk, then I'll give it a go...BUT...if I'm thinking of doing it to otherwise 'trick' a potential buyer of said card, that's when you start seeing signs for the ole slippery slope.

I guess I don’t really see a big difference in the cleaning up a card so that you can enjoy it for a few years which eventually will get sold likely for more money because it is cleaner than buying a card cleaning it and selling it?

[mantlefan]

Eventually we all sell so I can’t be limited by by that factor. I’m with Leon. Distilled water bath, a cloth and an eraser are my only tools.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I guess I don’t really see a big difference in the cleaning up a card so that you can enjoy it for a few years which eventually will get sold likely for more money because it is cleaner than buying a card cleaning it and selling it?

Me too. Generally speaking a better looking card will sell for more. Anyone cleaning one should understand that. So regardless of the motive, cleaning is a win-win for the seller . ( I dislike that saying) BTW, I like the Towle reference above...

[Fred]

The reason for the post is because I was looking for a little guidance and advice. I've never done any "doctoring/cleaning" of any cards and was a bit paranoid that:
1 - I'd be violating some type of code of ethics
2 - I'd destroy a paper item which I can't replace

Thank you guys for the advice and guidance. You can see the difference in the card before/after. Note, I didn't scan the before image, I found it from a web site and used it as my reference as "before". You can see the "cleaned" image on the right. Q-tip and water and gentle scrubbing removed a lot of dirt and crud.

Thanks again!