Should Frank Navin be in the HOF?

[Chuck9788]

Do you feel Frank Navin deserves posthumous HOF recognition?

Navin (1871-1935) was the principal owner of the Detroit Tigers for 27 years, from 1908 - 1935. He also served as vice president and acting president of the American League. His Tigers won 5 AL pennants and 1 World Series (1935).

[clydepepper]

How 'bout 'Captain Outrageous' Ted Turner?

I think any owners elected should have had a positive effect on more than just their own team and with the Super-Station expanding fandom, Ted certainly did that. He owned the Braves for close to a quarter century, and after his own 'Steinbrenner' period, he hired the right baseball people and brought Championship caliber Baseball to Georgia for the first time. Under Ted's ownership, the Atlanta team won their only World Championship and dominated their division throughout the decade of the 1990's.

IMO, he deserves induction far more than Frank Navin...and his doesn't have to be posthumously awarded, which, if you remember how Ronnie Santo got treated, means a whole lot!
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[esd10]

August herrman should go into hof before navin

[Klrdds]

Owners are a tough question ,but yes I agree that they should have brought more to the game in a broad fashion than their owning their team for an extended time or just winning championships .
I believe Navin is HOF worthy as possibly Briggs and maybe Fetzer , when considering Tigers owners and their successful history.
Also it seems that you can define ownership and HOF worthiness almost by the decade, that is there always seems to be 1 or 2 owners who influence a decade and then someone else assumes the mantle. That is why I believe there are 4-8 others owners who also should be considered for HOF induction.
For the teens and 20s Navin was a force as was August Herrmann , who should go in also. However both are long shots with the current Veterans Committee make up and voting IMO .

[Fred]

What about JT Brush? Lot's of potential candidates. I think the HOF should create a new section and call it "Pioneers" or something like that. That section could include players from the 19th century that probably deserve enshrinement but don't meet the criteria due to the way baseball was played way back when. Still blows me away there's no room for players like Ross Barnes (and others).

[steve B]

I say yes!

Mostly because I've had this for a few years

[nat]

Originally Posted by Fred

What about JT Brush? Lot's of potential candidates. I think the HOF should create a new section and call it "Pioneers" or something like that. That section could include players from the 19th century that probably deserve enshrinement but don't meet the criteria due to the way baseball was played way back when. Still blows me away there's no room for players like Ross Barnes (and others).

There's already one of those. You can be elected as a player, a manager, an umpire, someone from the negro leagues, or a pioneer/executive. Clark Griffith is in as a "pioneer/executive" as are Tom Yawkey, Bill Veeck and lots of other folks.

[packs]

Still don't understand how a guy like Tom Yawkey has any business in a Hall of anything except you know what.

[steve B]

Then you need to learn more baseball history.

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by packs

Still don't understand how a guy like Tom Yawkey has any business in a Hall of anything except you know what.

The power of Ted Williams and cronyism as it existed on the HOF Veterans Committee for decades is how Yawkey got in , as well as longevity in owning the Red Sox.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

Then you need to learn more baseball history.

Including the history that the Red Sox were the last major league team to integrate, in 1959?

[packs]

How about Yawkey hiding a sexual abuser of children in his clubhouse? Between 1971 and 1991 Donald Fitzpatrick abused children while employed by the Red Sox at spring training. The abuse was reported but the Yawkey's allowed him to stay employed. Fitzpatrick was eventually arrested and plead guilty in 2002.

[byrone]

Regarding Tom Yawkey, are there any substantiated instances of racism?

Not defending him, just curious.

Obviously, that the Red Sox under his ownership were the last MLB team to integrate seems racist to most of us.

Here is an interesting recent interview with writer Bill Nowlin, who is soon releasing a biography om Yawkey:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/r...2TL/story.html

[tazdmb]

Back to the subject at hand, based on the current rate of election, I think it will be challenging for anyone to get in the HOF through the Veterans committee, especially those pre-1950.

[leaflover]

HOF? ...I'm nominating the guy who invented "rubber spikes" for golf shoes.

[steve B]

I can't read the globe story since the globe has decided that I have to pay a buck a week to read the maybe 4-5 stories friends link to.

Yes, he didn't do much of anything on integration. It could also be said that the players and fans paid the price of that failure for nearly two decades. (He did also, as attendance during the early 60's was under 10,000/game twice)
There are probably no records, but I wonder if any black players turned down an offer because it was Boston?

I didn't know about the Fitzpatrick thing. There's really no excuse for it.

But everyone has faults, and weighing those against the positives should be done. He bought the team when it was truly awful, and did a lot to get things back on track. Fenway was in disrepair, and he did enough to repair it I'd say it wouldn't be there today if he didn't. (Both the team and the park) The Yawkey foundation does a lot of good. And there's the long term support of Dana-Farber. Also the wildlife sanctuary in South Carolina.

[packs]

Things that happen after your death can't really be attributed to your life though. Yawkey never once signed an African American free agent. In fact, Boston as an organization did not sign a single African American free agent until 1992. Think about that for a second. When Pumpsie Green made his debut he was the first African American employee at any level for the Red Sox as an organization.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Things that happen after your death can't really be attributed to your life though. Yawkey never once signed an African American free agent. In fact, Boston as an organization did not sign a single African American free agent until 1992. Think about that for a second. When Pumpsie Green made his debut he was the first African American employee at any level for the Red Sox as an organization.

A really interesting point. I'm going to start a new thread, to get this one back on track.

Steve B