PWCC Certified High End Cards:

[samosa4u]

From what I understand, a certified high end card is any card that looks better than the grade it received. PWCC will then put a sticker behind the slab which contains a serial number. These HE cards bring in big money, and can sell for double or even triple than what they would normally go for. Here is one listing I recently came across:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Topps-...p2047675.l2557

Bobby Orr is one of the greatest hockey players of all-time and this is his rookie card. A PSA 2 normally sells between $1,000 - $1,200 USD. This one however went for almost $5,500 which is nuts because that's how much a PSA 6 would bring in. Now I understand why this card got the HE designation because it has pretty good centering, edges, and near mint corners. However, there are creases on the reverse side, as stated in the description. Would you spend that much on a PSA 2 when you can get a PSA 6 with that money? Is there something I am missing here? Maybe this card is going to get soaked and the creases will be pressed out? If it does get a PSA 7, then this card will be worth approximately $15,000 USD. A PSA 8 is $35,000+

Do you think that a majority of these HE cards get cracked out and resubmitted to PSA?

Do you own a PWCC HE card? Have you left the sticker on it or did you remove it? Will it add any value to the card if you decide to sell it down the line? Will collectors pay more for your card since it has that sticker on it?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Brent has found a marketing gimmick that suckers are willing to buy into. He has almost no cost involved at all - simply places a sticker on the card, provides a cert, calls it High End and it brings in more money. People are stupid. Good for him to exploit their stupidity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I personally think it's a stupid gimmick -- I can judge as well as Brent and Betsy whether a card is high end for the grade and so can most people -- but no surprise in a gimmick-driven market it seems to work.

[botn]

I have bought cards in collections that come with the PWCC HE sticker and in none of those instances have the cards sold for remotely what they brought when PWCC originally sold them. In most of the cases the cards did not even sell for ANY premium over what a similarly graded example sold for. Shockingly these are one and done events. The added value in most cases was not even as much as what it cost PWCC for the sticker and the accompanying insert.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by botn

I have bought cards in collections that come with the PWCC HE sticker and in none of those instances have the cards sold for remotely what they brought when PWCC originally sold them. In most of the cases the cards did not even sell for ANY premium over what a similarly graded example sold for. Shockingly these are one and done events. The added value in most cases was not even as much as what it cost PWCC for the sticker and the accompanying insert.

Do you offer 2 day shipping?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I personally think it's a stupid gimmick -- I can judge as well as Brent and Betsy whether a card is high end for the grade and so can most people -- but no surprise in a gimmick-driven market it seems to work.

spot on

[Leon]

Sounds like good marketing to me. Their HE cards are usually high end . Just as a lot of us buy cards based on their qualities they are marking ones they think are nice. There are better things to gripe about ...

ps...I had a consignment get turned down for the HE designation .....oh well.

[Brian Van Horn]

I can't get beyond PSA 2 and high end.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

I can't get beyond PSA 2 and high end.

Yes...and why is there no 9.5 grade yet???

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Leon

Sounds like good marketing to me. Their HE cards are usually high end . Just as a lot of us buy cards based on their qualities they are marking ones they think are nice. There are better things to gripe about ...

ps...I had a consignment get turned down for the HE designation .....oh well.

..
..must you request that the submission possibly
be designated " PWCC HE" or do they automatically look at the cards as they scan and list and take it upon themselves to do it ??...that would be a great free service..higher final price for the seller and resulting higher fee to PWCC....a "win-win"

..

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..
..must you request that the submission possibly
be designated " PWCC HE" or do they automatically look at the cards as they scan and list and take it upon themselves to do it ??...that would be a great free service..higher final price for the seller and resulting higher fee to PWCC....a "win-win"

..

I don't know. I asked if a card would meet their HE designation and they said no, the corners weren't nice enough. It wasn't a big deal....

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Leon

Sounds like good marketing to me. Their HE cards are usually high end . Just as a lot of us buy cards based on their qualities they are marking ones they think are nice. There are better things to gripe about ...

Agreed!

[frankbmd]

My niche is the HE AUTH card.

[drcy]

It's like PSA assigning a condition grade to an autograph. If you are unable to judge the condition of a signature on your own, you probably shouldn't be collecting.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..
..must you request that the submission possibly
be designated " PWCC HE" or do they automatically look at the cards as they scan and list and take it upon themselves to do it ??...that would be a great free service..higher final price for the seller and resulting higher fee to PWCC....a "win-win"

..

They automatically review submissions to see if they qualify for the designation. You can make a request or state your opinion that you believe your card should qualify. But they won't make the determination until they have the card in hand.

I've sent in a couple of cards I thought should have been high end. One got it and one didn't.

[Sean]

I sold my 1965 Topps set through PWCC. I had a Frank Robinson PSA 9 that they designated High End. I didn't ask for the designation, they did it on their own.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I also think it's a pretty smart marketing move. If you're a buyer of PWCC cards it gives you an extra layer of grading that can easily be searched on. I recently added a "pwcc-he" ebay search just to see what cards they are designating high end. I think we all like to see cards that look better than their respective technical grades. And if you're a seller with PWCC there's an obvious upside to getting the designation (especially after all the "in-house" bidders go to work). :-)

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by drcy

It's like PSA assigning a condition grade to an autograph. If you are unable to judge the condition of a signature on your own, you probably shouldn't be collecting.

I'm not so sure. It's possible this "independent grading" thing may catch on.

If you are unable to judge the condition of a card on your own, you probably shouldn't be collecting.

[iwantitiwinit]

Do they also have a LE (low end) designation? If HE exists then LE obviously exists. Now I'm not saying I expect them to do anything thing that would lower the perceived value of a card they have on consignment but if I were a buyer in their auctions I would only purchase HE designated cards as non-HE cards could be of lesser condition for the grade. Some non-HE cards would logically have to be LE cards.

I actually don't care what they do since I never even look at their auctions. Why would I ever purchase a card for 25-50% more than I can purchase that same quality of card elsewhere.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

I can't get beyond PSA 2 and high end.

To me this is an oxymoron......

[Sean]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Do they also have a LE (low end) designation? If HE exists then LE obviously exists. Now I'm not saying I expect them to do anything thing that would lower the perceived value of a card they have on consignment but if I were a buyer in their auctions I would only purchase HE designated cards as non-HE cards could be of lesser condition for the grade. Some non-HE cards would logically have to be LE cards.

I actually don't care what they do since I never even look at their auctions. Why would I ever purchase a card for 25-50% more than I can purchase that same quality of card elsewhere.

I have an example of a low end card. Poor for the grade:


scan0005.jpg

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Sean

I have an example of a low end card. Poor for the grade:

When you see an ad that says 'low end' card on the listing let me know. I guess a seller can say on a low end card 'candidate for a resubmission raw for a re-grade' because the card will likely get a different grade, though a lower one.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Sean

I have an example of a low end card. Poor for the grade:


Attachment 291925

I think I owned that card. I frequently point out low end examples in my ebay store, but I'm not selling on consignment.


EDIT: Here's a couple:

Frankly grade seems a tad high to me. Crease-free, but more corner wear than I would normally associate with this grade.

All sellers hype their stuff, especially when they think it's undergraded. Don't know many of us who admit when they got a better grade than expected. I fully expected a PSA 6 on this card. Light corner touches and the centering issues really make me wonder how it got the extra half point!

I also call out average cards:

Average card for the grade. Light corner wear heavier in the lower right, and centering issues!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Brent has found a marketing gimmick that suckers are willing to buy into. He has almost no cost involved at all - simply places a sticker on the card, provides a cert, calls it High End and it brings in more money. People are stupid. Good for him to exploit their stupidity.

^^This is the real answer^^ I do like the humor in the posts sticking up for PWCC, they make me laugh and wonder if they are paid advertisements.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

^^This is the real answer^^ I do like the humor in the posts sticking up for PWCC, they make me laugh and wonder if they are paid advertisements.

It seems to me Members are just giving their honest and personal opinion. You seem to have a problem with that. LOL....Your sometimes contrarian attitude makes me LOL.....

BTW, I don't mind mentioning that PWCC is the largest advertiser on our board and it is appreciated very much. I hope our members support them for supporting the board.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Do they also have a LE (low end) designation? If HE exists then LE obviously exists. Now I'm not saying I expect them to do anything thing that would lower the perceived value of a card they have on consignment but if I were a buyer in their auctions I would only purchase HE designated cards as non-HE cards could be of lesser condition for the grade. Some non-HE cards would logically have to be LE cards.

I actually don't care what they do since I never even look at their auctions. Why would I ever purchase a card for 25-50% more than I can purchase that same quality of card elsewhere.

When PSA went to half grades some argued that it would devalue the regular grades. That never happened. I think PWCC is using the designation sparingly enough that it doesn't hurt the value of the rest of their cards. That said, I continue to think it's a gimmick and personally I could not care less.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When PSA went to half grades some argued that it would devalue the regular grades. That never happened. I think PWCC is using the designation sparingly enough that it doesn't hurt the value of the rest of their cards. That said, I continue to think it's a gimmick and personally I could not care less.

agreed

PWCC gets great stuff. There are also a lot of things to consider when bidding with PWCC that have been discussed over, and over, and over again by the same collectors ..... who probably have "Stay off the Lawn" signs in their front yard

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

When you see an ad that says 'low end' card on the listing let me know. I guess a seller can say on a low end card 'candidate for a resubmission raw for a re-grade' because the card will likely get a different grade, though a lower one.

I will one day sell this and probably all of my cards. And I will not list it as low end. The buyer can decide whether to buy the card or the holder.

[Sean]

[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;1712687]I think I owned that card.



Hey Scott, I bought it raw in a lot from Mastro in 2002. Could it have been your card prior to that?

[Stonepony]

Although not a PWCC enthusiast, I don't think their HE is as gimmicky as most of you think. In fact the coin collecting world ( which dwarfs the card collecting world ( at least my using PCGS/NGC numbers vs PSA/SCG) has had a third party
Opinion company (CAC) for 10 years. They apply a green sticker to a " high end for grade" coin or a gold sticker for a coin which would be high end for the grade assigned. They've verified ( stickered) hundreds of thousands of coins worth billions of dollars. I'm an amateur coin and card collector but I don't see many
incredulous post on their coin forums mocking the service... because " my eyes are as good as theirs". It's an accepted service that's really boost the value of coins that get verified as really nice for grade. I'm sure there are those that hate the service though. Us amateurs appreciate the destinction. It is a 3rd party service and they dont benefit from designation a coin as high end- this is in stark contrast to PWCC which certainly profits from the higher prices their HE brings.
For full disclosure I own one PWCc High end card. It is the PSA 6 1953 Topps Mickey Mantle which opens the " Official Mickey Mantle Thread" over in the post war side. If I ever sell it will I disclose it as PWCC HE? Yup

[Snapolit1]

Probably was designed principally as a way to to suck up to the consignors of high end cards to make them feel special and appreciated. Can’t imagine anyone need to be reminded that a Mantle PSA 7 52 Topps is a high end card.

[chalupacollects]

Good marketing gimmick IMHO and card does look good for a two... however seems to me like something along the lines of "manufactured rarities" that the card manufacturers use so much... on the other had, why did PSA not grade it a 2.5 or 3? Is PWCC now to be considered on a par with PSA in grading?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Good marketing gimmick IMHO and card does look good for a two... however seems to me like something along the lines of "manufactured rarities" that the card manufacturers use so much... on the other had, why did PSA not grade it a 2.5 or 3? Is PWCC now to be considered on a par with PSA in grading?

He is just doing with a seasoned collector can do with his own cards. Most collectors know when a card is high end for the grade, just average for the grade, or low for the grade. When he does that, the cards seem to get an obscene premium that the collectors cant recoup.

[Peter_Spaeth]

"We at PWCC are not professional graders..."

[brianp-beme]

I typically purchase laundry detergent with the 'HE' designation. Did PWCC have something to do with this? I have noticed it usually sells for more money.

Brian

[botn]

Hmmm...only a 30% increase so I would say that PWCC has nothing to do with the detergent.

[CMIZ5290]

Say what you want, the guy is making a killing....

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by botn

Hmmm...only a 30% increase so I would say that PWCC has nothing to do with the detergent.

Well... There might be another DiMaggio rookie card that needs cleaning.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Well... There might be another DiMaggio rookie card that needs cleaning.

...ewwwww....I see what you did there...

..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Say what you want, the guy is making a killing....

PWCC probably gets at least a total of $250,000.00 of combined bids from Net54 people every auction and at least one bidder from Net54 bids on Off-centered (oc) cards

[itslarry]

I think this is huge in the coin world, and has been for a couple of years. Called cac.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Brent has found a marketing gimmick that suckers are willing to buy into. He has almost no cost involved at all - simply places a sticker on the card, provides a cert, calls it High End and it brings in more money. People are stupid. Good for him to exploit their stupidity.

Brent didn't create this marketing, A company has been doing this for years with slabbed coins. I agree that it targets more suckers.. Amazing marketing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe Heritage REA and Probstein should do the same thing and we can see whose HE certification is worth more.

[Touch'EmAll]

Within any grade there are cards that are, 1) average for the grade, cards that are 2) high end for the grade, and cards that are 3) low end for the grade.

How often do you see PWCC list cards that are low end for the grade? Trust me, there are some.
_______________
Steve Parmentier

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Within any grade there are cards that are, 1) average for the grade, cards that are 2) high end for the grade, and cards that are 3) low end for the grade.

How often do you see PWCC list cards that are low end for the grade? Trust me, there are some.

..that particular situation should have been solved and rendered moot by the new half-grades (PSA) and new numbering systems (SGC) of recent years.....I have never seen a PSA 6.5 HE or SGC 86 HE that wasn't in a PSA 7 or SGC 88 slab ???

..