The HoF and Walter Corson

[topcat61]

I contacted the Baseball Hall of Fame to get info and a photo of Hobby pioneer Walter E. Corson, and this was my response:

Ryan,

Before I check our photos, are you absolutely sure that a Walter Corson played professional baseball? In order to see if we might have a team photo with him it, I needed to know which team(s) he might have played for.

I have checked Baseball-Reference.com, as well as our collection of minor league contract cards, and I have not found anyone matching that name. Even general Internet searches and searches on digitized newspaper databases do not turn anything up.

Additionally, I did a little research, and the Arizona State League’s years of operation do not match what you mentioned below.

Is there any chance he might have played under a different name?

Best regards,

Matt

Matt Rothenberg
Manager of the Giamatti Research Center
National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum
25 Main Street
Cooperstown, New York 13326
(607) 547-0332
mrothenberg@baseballhall.org


Is there anything else, like a team name that might help discover more about him?

[Leon]

When did Corson pass away again? I have some boxes of stuff I don't think I have gone through....old publications etc....With as many publications as there were put out at the time, with pictures in them, I would be surprised if we can't find a picture eventually.

[trdcrdkid]

Corson died in 1966. I also looked him up on baseball-reference.com and didn't find him. My guess is he played under a different name and/or he misremembered the details.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Corson died in 1966. I also looked him up on baseball-reference.com and didn't find him. My guess is he played under a different name and/or he misremembered the details.

Thanks, that helps so I won't have to look in/for pubs later than that (unless it was some sort of tribute).

[topcat61]

Corson might be correct about the dates in which he played, and I'm saying that only because of the details he gives in his writings sound too clear to be made up. Just to be sure, I went over some newspapers from the Arizona Republic as far back as 1924 that state that there was an Arizona State League. Of course Corson could have played under another name, but why? I don't think we have all the information on him or the league at this point...but that's what net54 is for!

It appears that there was a much older Arizona Copper League around the same time of the Arizona State League where the Black Sox players, Jimmy O'Connell and Hal Chase played and Beans Reardon played in both. The Copper League had teams in Prescott, Bisbee, Jerome, Pheonix, Oakland and Tombstone. I'm wondering if Corson actually played in this one? The first instance I'm seeing of the Arizona-Texas League is 1931. We'll find out about this and perhaps add another chapter to our Baseball history.

I'm exited, are you?

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Corson might be correct about the dates in which he played, and I'm saying that only because of the details he gives in his writings sound too clear to be made up. Just to be sure, I went over some newspapers from the Arizona Republic as far back as 1924 that state that there was an Arizona State League. Of course Corson could have played under another name, but why? I don't think we have all the information on him or the league at this point...but that's what net54 is for!

It appears that there was a much older Arizona Copper League around the same time of the Arizona State League where the Black Sox players, Jimmy O'Connell and Hal Chase played and Beans Reardon played in both. The Copper League had teams in Prescott, Bisbee, Jerome, Pheonix, Oakland and Tombstone. I'm wondering if Corson actually played in this one? The first instance I'm seeing of the Arizona-Texas League is 1931. We'll find out about this and perhaps add another chapter to our Baseball history.

I'm exited, are you?

Oh, I love this kind of stuff. Maybe there was another Arizona State League that was a separate entity from the later league of that name. There's still a lot of research to be done on low minor leagues (and semi-pro leagues) of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

[Brian Van Horn]

Here's an offbeat suggestion: try contacting George Vrechek to see if he can shed any light on the matter.

[Troy Kirk]

This is a question that has interested me in the past, so I looked into this myself a number of years ago. Since there is no mention of Corson in the major or minor league baseball records, that seemed funny since he said he was an ex-player. He also said he was a scout for a couple of different major league teams in the 1950s. A few years ago I contacted the SABR leader of the scout research and gave him the scouting info that Corson had mentioned in articles in the 1950s. The SABR guy told me there was no record of Corson being a scout either. The SABR guy mentioned that he has come across others who have said they were involved in MLB when they had in fact, not been.

I concluded that Corson had probably fabricated all his player/scout history. I wouldn't mind being wrong about this, but as far as I know there is no evidence to back up his stories in this regard.

[topcat61]

Without a photo of him in uniform, a mention of a team name or player roster, I'm coming to the conclusion that Corson made it up out of whole cloth. The papers I read from 1924 to 1931 don't have a Corson listed in any of the rosters.
I checked the most obvious date -1925. The teams listed in the standings for that year are - Mesa Jewels, (1st.B -Willegard), Miami Miners (1st B -Shires), Globe (1st B -Leonard), Glendale (no longer in league), Pheonix 1st B -Fleckenger) and Nogales (1st B Whipple).

The Arizona State League started in May of 1923 and what many of these papers are saying is that teams like the Yankees would visit teams in this league for exhibition play. For example in 1929, the Detroit Tigers went to Phoenix for spring training and play against ASL teams. In 1930 the Yankees appear to have held their Spring Training in San Antonio, Texas playing against trams of the Arizona-Texas League. Corson, if he played at all, may never have left the state as a spring training invitee.

There are other problems too. Corson gives no mention of his team. These teams and leagues and teams folded just as quickly as they started. It was a mess to follow what's happening in the papers with them. Reporting was iffy at best and photos of these players were "scratchy". I happened to find only two team photos and virtually no single player photos as of yet.

Also, individual player stats are Negro League -esk...mostly league standings but no batting averages. This stands out to me as to where Corson got his 350+ average from in 1925? ....The Copper League was also a candidate for Corson though it appears that league's hayday was more in the 1900's-1910's

There

[Jeffrompa]

... As some of you know my Father was good friends of Walter Corson for about 10 years . They wrote books , published together and went to many a postcard show with each other . My Father even conducted his funeral service .

A few years ago I asked my Father if he knew that Walter Corson played professional baseball and he told me that it was never discussed . But my Father was not into sports at all . So I guess its still a question .

[topcat61]

I received this from the Hall of Fame this morning about Walter Corson's supposed Baseball career. It's pretty disturbing stuff:

Ryan,

I needed to do some additional consulting and research before I returned your message.

We do not have any photos taken in spring training of New York Yankees teams in 1926 or 1934. Any photos of Arizona-based teams were taken well after the time period in question. We do not have any photos of anyone named Walter Corson.

Mr. Corson claimed to have been a scout for Cleveland for about eight years. I am inclined to believe that is false. I checked multiple Cleveland Indians media guides and baseball Blue Books from the 1940s through 1960s, which contain a directory of scouts (even for some minor league teams), and his name was not listed anywhere.

Mr. Corson claimed to have attended spring training with the Yankees in 1926 and 1934. I am inclined to believe that is false. There is no record of him in any spring training roster for the Yankees for either of those years. Even if he were playing for a minor league team somehow associated with the Yankees (in the days just before farm systems), minor league clubs often held spring training somewhere other than where major league teams were.

Mr. Corson claimed to have played in the Arizona State League, where he led the league in hitting in 1925. This is false. I did my own research and then consulted with a SABR member based in the Phoenix area who I know has done a significant amount of research on the Black Sox. A look at the Arizona Republic newspaper from 28 August 1925 shows a list of the leading hitters from the Arizona State League. There is not a single Corson among them, nor does a Walter Corson come up on any search from Arizona newspapers at that time. The Arizona State League of 1924 to 1927 was an independent semi-professional league which prohibited the signing of “banned” players. One team chose to sign a banned player and was then kicked out of the league. This player then moved to the Copper League where the Black Sox and others played. There is no record of a Corson in the short-lived Copper League, which folded around 1928. At that time, the Arizona State League gained admission as a Class D professional league, but was wiped out after a few years in existence. If Corson had been signed or invited to spring training by the Yankees, I’m certain there would have been mention in one of the Arizona newspapers, and there was not.

Additionally, I did some searching on Ancestry.com, and it appears Corson spent practically his whole life in the Philadelphia area, or at least on the East Coast. There are no records for that name in the states of Arizona or New Mexico.

My conclusion is that Walter Corson might have been well known in the baseball card collecting world, but he was never a professional or semi-professional ballplayer in Arizona in the 1920s, certainly not as he claims to have been. His claims of attending Yankees spring training as a player and later scouting for the Cleveland Indians also seem made up to me. He is probably one of many people who we hear of that claim to have played professional baseball but never did.

Please let me know if there is anything else we can do to help.

Best regards,
Matt

[Leon]

Originally Posted by topcat61

I received this from the Hall of Fame this morning about Walter Corson's supposed Baseball career. It's pretty disturbing stuff:

Ryan,

I needed to do some additional consulting and research before I returned your message.

We do not have any photos taken in spring training of New York Yankees teams in 1926 or 1934. Any photos of Arizona-based teams were taken well after the time period in question. We do not have any photos of anyone named Walter Corson.

Mr. Corson claimed to have been a scout for Cleveland for about eight years. I am inclined to believe that is false. I checked multiple Cleveland Indians media guides and baseball Blue Books from the 1940s through 1960s, which contain a directory of scouts (even for some minor league teams), and his name was not listed anywhere.

Mr. Corson claimed to have attended spring training with the Yankees in 1926 and 1934. I am inclined to believe that is false. There is no record of him in any spring training roster for the Yankees for either of those years. Even if he were playing for a minor league team somehow associated with the Yankees (in the days just before farm systems), minor league clubs often held spring training somewhere other than where major league teams were.

Mr. Corson claimed to have played in the Arizona State League, where he led the league in hitting in 1925. This is false. I did my own research and then consulted with a SABR member based in the Phoenix area who I know has done a significant amount of research on the Black Sox. A look at the Arizona Republic newspaper from 28 August 1925 shows a list of the leading hitters from the Arizona State League. There is not a single Corson among them, nor does a Walter Corson come up on any search from Arizona newspapers at that time. The Arizona State League of 1924 to 1927 was an independent semi-professional league which prohibited the signing of “banned” players. One team chose to sign a banned player and was then kicked out of the league. This player then moved to the Copper League where the Black Sox and others played. There is no record of a Corson in the short-lived Copper League, which folded around 1928. At that time, the Arizona State League gained admission as a Class D professional league, but was wiped out after a few years in existence. If Corson had been signed or invited to spring training by the Yankees, I’m certain there would have been mention in one of the Arizona newspapers, and there was not.

Additionally, I did some searching on Ancestry.com, and it appears Corson spent practically his whole life in the Philadelphia area, or at least on the East Coast. There are no records for that name in the states of Arizona or New Mexico.

My conclusion is that Walter Corson might have been well known in the baseball card collecting world, but he was never a professional or semi-professional ballplayer in Arizona in the 1920s, certainly not as he claims to have been. His claims of attending Yankees spring training as a player and later scouting for the Cleveland Indians also seem made up to me. He is probably one of many people who we hear of that claim to have played professional baseball but never did.

Please let me know if there is anything else we can do to help.

Best regards,
Matt

Nice follow up, Ryan. In looking for Corson stuff (still looking) here is one for Jeff (right above)......his Dad's own copy (autographed I think) of the 1953 ACC which is my copy now....

[topcat61]

Thanks Leon, I think this pretty much closes the Corson case, unless by some amazing chance there is evidence he did play under an assumed name.

I think collectors and Hobby historians were all thinking along the lines Matt at the Hall of Fame discovered (he did a fantastic job!) but may have had reservations about saying this guy fabricated his past. This wasn't fun for me, I wanted to tell people about Mr. Corson's Baseball career and as a card collector and uncovered a giant 60 year fraud.

What's been running in the back of my mind, is how did the go on for so long and why didn't any of our hobby founders like Buck Barker, Charles Brooks or Lionel Carter check into this when it was written?

Leon, in your opinion, does this hurt Corson's credibility in every other aspect of the hobby like his writings and research?

I'd still love a photograph of Mr. Corson though.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Thanks Leon, I think this pretty much closes the Corson case, unless by some amazing chance there is evidence he did play under an assumed name.

I think collectors and Hobby historians were all thinking along the lines Matt at the Hall of Fame discovered (he did a fantastic job!) but may have had reservations about saying this guy fabricated his past. This wasn't fun for me, I wanted to tell people about Mr. Corson's Baseball career and as a card collector and uncovered a giant 60 year fraud.

What's been running in the back of my mind, is how did the go on for so long and why didn't any of our hobby founders like Buck Barker, Charles Brooks or Lionel Carter check into this when it was written?

Leon, in your opinion, does this hurt Corson's credibility in every other aspect of the hobby like his writings and research?

I'd still love a photograph of Mr. Corson though.

Well, I have not given enough thought to this particular situation, but I guess it would hurt credibility if someone were living a lie and never came clean. That said I wouldn't dismiss someone's entire work for one misleading situation. I would have to take it as a situational thing and not a wholly collective one. Except for the little bit which has been written here lately, and the little I gleaned in the few conversations with the late Mr. Lowe, I don't know much about Corson's biography. I do have some, or most, of his checklists from when he was collecting though.

.

[cardinalcollector]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Thanks Leon, I think this pretty much closes the Corson case, unless by some amazing chance there is evidence he did play under an assumed name.

I think collectors and Hobby historians were all thinking along the lines Matt at the Hall of Fame discovered (he did a fantastic job!) but may have had reservations about saying this guy fabricated his past. This wasn't fun for me, I wanted to tell people about Mr. Corson's Baseball career and as a card collector and uncovered a giant 60 year fraud.

What's been running in the back of my mind, is how did the go on for so long and why didn't any of our hobby founders like Buck Barker, Charles Brooks or Lionel Carter check into this when it was written?

Leon, in your opinion, does this hurt Corson's credibility in every other aspect of the hobby like his writings and research?

I'd still love a photograph of Mr. Corson though.

It's plausible that Barker, Brooks, and Carter knew the truth. They were all researchers. I bet Buck Barker would keep that to himself should he have known about it. It doesn't change his contributions to the hobby for me.

[topcat61]

This was a pretty big fabrication I don't think these guys would have missed, but Corson's work seems to be on the level otherwise. This hobby as a little bit of everything going for it and a colorful history. It is the best hobby I know and has taught me so much.

I can see why they kept it to themselves, Corson had gone though a lot of health issues at this time. I wonder if Buck, Burdick and Carter or Nagy talked about it, what their thoughts were?

[brian1961]

Well, I think you must remember the time these pioneers lived in. There was a certain maturity and kindness that was taught in our upbringing, and the press by and large also followed this tenet, not to expose someone's half-truth or out and out lie, and then embarrass them to the point where they couldn't go anywhere without feeling shame and humiliated. That is what people today typically do to each other.

I think the kindness and forbearance instilled in me and the pioneers of yore goes back to the Golden Rule that Jesus Christ taught, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

----Brian Powell

[trdcrdkid]

I don't see why we have to assume that Barker, Brooks, or Carter would have known the truth, assuming that Corson did make up the stuff about going to spring training with the Yankees. How were they going to check something like that back in the 1950s? The only baseball encyclopedia available was the crappy Turkin-Thompson one, which only gave year-by-year batting averages or win-loss records for major league players, and was riddled with errors in any case. These guys would have probably had to travel to Florida and spend days looking through microfilms of old newspapers, and what reason would they have to go to all that trouble? Corson mentioned the Yankee stuff in one article he wrote for the Sport Hobbyist in September 1956, and then very briefly in passing at the end of an article in the April-May 1957 Sport Hobbyist; it's not like his whole identity as a collector was based on that.

[Orioles1954]

I've probably met 10-15 people who claimed they played professional baseball but never did. Who knows why people do what they do? In my faith, one of our noted theologians not only lied about playing for the St. Louis Cardinals but also told some whoppers when it came to World War 2 service. It's probably hard for someone who eats, drinks and sleeps baseball to say "Yep, I played ball but wasn't good enough."

[trdcrdkid]

I see that the new REA auction has a run of Yankees spring training rosters/itineraries from 1933 to 1954, missing only 1949. If we could get a picture of the 1934 spring training roster, that would at least settle the question of whether Corson was at spring training with the Yankees that year, as he claimed.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=47830

[topcat61]

I sent in a request to REA Auctions regarding their 1934 New York Yankees spring training roster, and check if Corson's name is there. I'll be interested to hear back and post what they say, if anything

Cheers -Ryan

[topcat61]

I received a reply from REA informing me that his name isn't listed in the 1934 Spring Training Roster. Here's the photo of that roster: