1962 Topps Variations Hal Reniff 139 and Carl Wiley 174

[drmondobueno]

Have been looking for versions of this card - Reniff pitching and Carl Wiley hat on. I have the green tint version of each. A checklist I am using lists both of these cards in the standard (not green tint) version but I have yet to see one of either card.

Anyone know if these two variations exist outside of the green tint subset? And if you may have one or both for sale, I am interested.

[JollyElm]

No, that checklist is wrong. It's sort of the old mindset, before things got specific.

PSA actually graded some of those cards with the wrong info on the slab. It all stems from the fact they didn't actually state "green tint" on the slabs in the good old days. Therefore, you can have the Reniff pitching with or without "green tint" on the slab. But make no mistake. All Reniff pitching cards are GT's. And all Willey's with cap are GT's, too.

But then they also made blatant errors. For instance, they list Hal Reniff Portrait-Green Tint (a total of 3, I believe). That card does not exist. The only Reniff GT is the pitching version. And likewise as I stated, there are no 'regular' versions of Reniff pitching. Each one of them is a GT. And they also list Carl Willey No Cap-Green Tint (a total of 4, I believe). That is completely wrong as well. All hatless Willey's are 'regular' versions. PSA really messed those up, but since there are only a few of each graded, they clearly righted the ship a long time ago. I sent an e-mail to PSA a while back regarding the Reniff problem and I forgot what their reply was, but they definitely indicated they had stopped labeling the 'wrong' ones.

In reality, here's what the true checklist is. Three Reniffs, two Willeys:

1. #159 Hal Reniff - portrait
2. #139 Hal Reniff - portrait
3. #139 Hal Reniff - pitching, green tint

1. #174 Carl Willey - no cap
2. #174 Carl Willey - with cap, green tint

--elm

[drmondobueno]

Thanks for that. I guess I have a compkete set, somewhere around 694 or 6 cards.

Do you have any idea who/ where there is a "correct complete" checklist.

Regards for the response

K

[ALR-bishop]

Keith---I am not sure there is one correct hobby answer to that question. The Standard Catalog of Baseball cards and Beckett would both have a checklist, and there is a PSA Registry master set checklist. I have not studied them but my guess is there may be some differences among the 3. Plus I think there would be some 62 collectors, myself among them, who think none of these lists are complete. For example SCD ( not sure about Beckett) lists variations for the 1st, 3d, 6th and 7th checklists. I think differences exist in the 2nd, 4th and 5th as well ( maybe just DP differences ?).

The lack of a unified hobby definition of what constitutes a variation or card variant that should be included in a master checklist makes this a murky question in my mind for all, or at least most, Topps sets. But if you choose one hobby source checklist as your parameter a number can be calculated

[Tedw9]

Wow, thanks for that information. I own the top Carl Willey master set and when I was building it, I thought they were crazy with the no cap green tint. I've collected Carlton for 25+ years and had never seen one. And now I understand why. I have one of the labeled ones, but it's definitely not tinted green. But they insisted I have one for my master set.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[ALR-bishop]

Hey, Ted, why the keen interest in Mr Willey, relative ?

[Rich Klein]

Since we are all humans, even us cataloguers make mistakes from time to time. I'm still looking for the rumored to exist (I will wager it does not), 1959 Topps Bill White #359 without the "Traded to St. Louis" line on the back.

The legend goes is Larry Fritsch claimed to have one way back in the day.

if one exists, it would have surfaced when the Bill White 1959 RC had a nice run when he was named NL President.

But I bet there is something out there which says that variation exists.

Just an example of what can go wrong in cataloguing

Rich

[ALR-bishop]

I tend to think if it existed at least some scan would have showed up at some point by now. Another example is the alternative 62 Sievers Topps stamp. That one actually used to be listed in the SCD catalog.

[Tedw9]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Hey, Ted, why the keen interest in Mr Willey, relative ?

No, but something like one. I found him in the side of the road one day ('93 or so) with a flat tire which I stopped and changed for him. He saw my Sox hat and asked if I'd like to come over to his house and talk baseball. As much as I love the history of baseball to be able to talk with someone who was there? Hell yes! That started a collection and friendship that lasted until he passed. Many, many Sundays at his house just talking about everything from baseball to the weather to family. He was such a sweet man and a true gentleman, a real gem of a person. What started with a flat tire ended with hugs and I love you in the hospital a few days before he passed. So no, not family but someone I love like family.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Tedw9

No, but something like one. I found him in the side of the road one day ('93 or so) with a flat tire which I stopped and changed for him. He saw my Sox hat and asked if I'd like to come over to his house and talk baseball. As much as I love the history of baseball to be able to talk with someone who was there? Hell yes! That started a collection and friendship that lasted until he passed. Many, many Sundays at his house just talking about everything from baseball to the weather to family. He was such a sweet man and a true gentleman, a real gem of a person. What started with a flat tire ended with hugs and I love you in the hospital a few days before he passed. So no, not family but someone I love like family.

That is a great story, thank you for sharing

[geosluggo]

Originally Posted by Tedw9

No, but something like one. I found him in the side of the road one day ('93 or so) with a flat tire which I stopped and changed for him. He saw my Sox hat and asked if I'd like to come over to his house and talk baseball. As much as I love the history of baseball to be able to talk with someone who was there? Hell yes! That started a collection and friendship that lasted until he passed. Many, many Sundays at his house just talking about everything from baseball to the weather to family. He was such a sweet man and a true gentleman, a real gem of a person. What started with a flat tire ended with hugs and I love you in the hospital a few days before he passed. So no, not family but someone I love like family.

Cool story!

[ALR-bishop]

+ 3

[Tedw9]

Thanks guys!

[irv]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

That is a great story, thank you for sharing

X4. Thanks for sharing!

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Tedw9

No, but something like one. I found him in the side of the road one day ('93 or so) with a flat tire which I stopped and changed for him. He saw my Sox hat and asked if I'd like to come over to his house and talk baseball. As much as I love the history of baseball to be able to talk with someone who was there? Hell yes! That started a collection and friendship that lasted until he passed. Many, many Sundays at his house just talking about everything from baseball to the weather to family. He was such a sweet man and a true gentleman, a real gem of a person. What started with a flat tire ended with hugs and I love you in the hospital a few days before he passed. So no, not family but someone I love like family.

That is a great story. I knew you guys hung out but did not know how you met.

PS I got Sean to tell me about his great find in the sketchy motel, luckily he could not find a picture,LOL