Is this Fountain Pen?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Needing some opinions. Is this fountain pen invented in 1896?

[vintagesportscollector]

I know little about fountain pens, but it doesn't look like it was written with a fountain pen. What are you trying to determine? If it is an authentic ball that could have been hit by Collins?

Eddie Collins with Chicago WS would put it 1915 to 1926. Are there any signs of this being a Reach OAL ball from that period? any markings left on the ball?

[irv]

I know squat about baseballs and signatures but if I were to come across this and someone were trying to pass this off as being signed/written a 100+ years ago, I'd walk away.

Maybe that would be a big mistake, but going with my gut, I'd be happy with my decision.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

I know little about fountain pens, but it doesn't look like it was written with a fountain pen. What are you trying to determine? If it is an authentic ball that could have been hit by Collins?

Eddie Collins with Chicago WS would put it 1915 to 1926. Are there any signs of this being a Reach OAL ball from that period? any markings left on the ball?

Yes Correct.

From what I see I believe it matches the http://keymancollectibles.com/balls/...uebaseball.htm

Based on font and font size of official.

Below the Official looks like the Top part of L in league. That font was not used past the 1925 Reach Ban Johnson
Official American League Baseball

The markings that I can see are as follows.

[Michael B]

This looks like a Flair pen written within the last few months and scuffed to look old. Fountain pen would have aged along with the ball. I would guess that if you put this under a UV light the writing would glow showing the ink is post WWII/atomic bomb era. Also, if the person who wrote this lived in Chicago it is not very likely they would misspell the name of the city - 'Chicogo'.

[drcy]

All I have to ask is, irrelevant to pen type, how would the writing be in such good condition on such a worn ball, unless it was written recently?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by drcy

All I have to ask is, irrelevant to pen type, how would the writing be in such good condition on such a worn ball, unless it was written recently?

If it helps, the O is A it was just scraped at the tail. Also, Could it have been written after the ball was retired permanently?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Michael B

This looks like a Flair pen written within the last few months and scuffed to look old. Fountain pen would have aged along with the ball. I would guess that if you put this under a UV light the writing would glow showing the ink is post WWII/atomic bomb era. Also, if the person who wrote this lived in Chicago it is not very likely they would misspell the name of the city - 'Chicogo'.

THANKS! would a black light work? I am gonan do this now and let you know the results.

[drcy]

As is my saying, "It's your money."

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by drcy

As is my saying, "It's your money."

I obviously do not want a fake which is why I am asking.

Originally Posted by Michael B

This looks like a Flair pen written within the last few months and scuffed to look old. Fountain pen would have aged along with the ball. I would guess that if you put this under a UV light the writing would glow showing the ink is post WWII/atomic bomb era. Also, if the person who wrote this lived in Chicago it is not very likely they would misspell the name of the city - 'Chicogo'.

Here are photos under a black light. Let me know your analysis please.

[drcy]

If you can't infer from posts, my vote would be pass.

If you really want an old time game used ball, I'd get one with exceptional and iron clad provenance, such as from a player's estate. There also are trophy balls-- painted up or signed by the team--, that were usually used in the game. Though provenance for these still is important. They can be found (follow the big auctions and respected dealers) and exist for both baseballs and footballs.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by drcy

If you can't infer from posts, my vote would be pass.

If you really want an old time game used ball, I'd get one with exceptional and iron clad provenance. There also are trophy balls-- painted up or signed by the team--, that were usually used in the game. They can be found and exist for both baseballs and footballs.

Cool Thanks. I hate how many people try to pass off fakes. I just could not do that to someone.

[vintagesportscollector]

Do you have the ball already? where did you get? was there any story or provenance behind the ball?

[drcy]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

Cool Thanks. I hate how many people try to pass off fakes. I just could not do that to someone.

Reasonably provable antique game used balls do exist and you can pick up one sometime if you want one. If you're a college football fan, there are fair number of antique college football trophy balls-- though I think you should purchase one from a respected veteran dealer or auction house, rather than a random seller.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Do you have the ball already? where did you get? was there any story or provenance behind the ball?

Yes I do. I got it off ebay. The auction stated "This ball was looked at by an individual who works for Leland's Auction Company and it was in his opinion that this is a real game used ball from the 1920's"

Guess he lied.

The Eddie Collins part didn't really bother me if someone made it up but it was relative to that time period (kids lieing etc) however the fact that this now seems to be a doctored ball made to look old pisses me off.

The ball matched the period, but I did not realize how bold this writing was until I saw it in person. Looked like marker, but I am not a expert so wanted opinions before I contacted the seller.

[Scott Garner]

The short answer is no!

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

Yes I do. I got it off ebay. The auction stated "This ball was looked at by an individual who works for Leland's Auction Company and it was in his opinion that this is a real game used ball from the 1920's"

Guess he lied.

The Eddie Collins part didn't really bother me if someone made it up but it was relative to that time period (kids lieing etc) however the fact that this now seems to be a doctored ball made to look old pisses me off.

The ball matched the period, but I did not realize how bold this writing was until I saw it in person. Looked like marker, but I am not a expert so wanted opinions before I contacted the seller.

Thanks for all the opinions guys. You helped me out with the ball tremendously. I will be contacting the seller and letting him know it is not what he says it is.

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

Yes I do. I got it off ebay. The auction stated "This ball was looked at by an individual who works for Leland's Auction Company and it was in his opinion that this is a real game used ball from the 1920's"

Guess he lied.

The Eddie Collins part didn't really bother me if someone made it up but it was relative to that time period (kids lieing etc) however the fact that this now seems to be a doctored ball made to look old pisses me off.

The ball matched the period, but I did not realize how bold this writing was until I saw it in person. Looked like marker, but I am not a expert so wanted opinions before I contacted the seller.

Here is the ebay listing, with addition pics of the ball, in case it helps anyone provide additional or a differing opinion to Stephen.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-039-s-o...p2047675.l2557

good luck

[drcy]

If you buy an item from a well known and respected seller, that is part of the provenance. As I tell people, if you buy an item from a well respected source, when you turn to resell it you will be able to advertise that it came from a well respected source.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by drcy

If you buy an item from a well known and respected seller, that is part of the provenance. As I tell people, if you buy an item from a well respected source, when you turn to resell it you will be able to advertise that it came from a well respected source.

I totally agree.

Just thought it looked really nice. Once I got it in front of me it felt wrong.

Also, the under bidder had 17,000+ feedback so I felt confident as a dealer was most likely chasing this too.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I totally agree.

Just thought it looked really nice. Once I got it in front of me it felt wrong.

Also, the under bidder had 17,000+ feedback so I felt confident as a dealer was most likely chasing this too.

It's modestly interesting that the underbidder that you speak of only bid once. His bid was placed 4 seconds after your bid.

You can fool some of the boys some of the time, but not this old "boy".

[Peter_Spaeth]

And one second before it closed. Plenty of time to rely though.

[yanks12025]

Couldn't the bids have been snipes?

[perezfan]

Yes they probably were. But this is the quote being referenced...

"Also, the under bidder had 17,000+ feedback so I felt confident as a dealer was most likely chasing this too"


How was it possible to "feel confident" about something that occurred after the fact? The bid from the "Dealer" (with the 17K+ feedback) did not occur until after the OP had placed his bid. This competing bidder/dealer was invisible until one second before the auction closed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe he felt confident after the fact.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And one second before it closed. Plenty of time to rely though.

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yes they probably were. But this is the quote being referenced...

"Also, the under bidder had 17,000+ feedback so I felt confident as a dealer was most likely chasing this too"


How was it possible to "feel confident" about something that occurred after the fact? The bid from the "Dealer" (with the 17K+ feedback) did not occur until after the OP had placed his bid. This competing bidder/dealer was invisible until one second before the auction closed.

Exactly.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And one second before it closed. Plenty of time to rely though.

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yes they probably were. But this is the quote being referenced...

"Also, the under bidder had 17,000+ feedback so I felt confident as a dealer was most likely chasing this too"


How was it possible to "feel confident" about something that occurred after the fact? The bid from the "Dealer" (with the 17K+ feedback) did not occur until after the OP had placed his bid. This competing bidder/dealer was invisible until one second before the auction closed.

Exactly.

[Bpm0014]

I feel confident that Frank is going to reply with the word "exactly".... twice

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Exactly.

HOLY SMOKES. Are you serious Frank? You dissect everything lol I meant AFTER I won the auction and as I was waiting for the ball to come. I felt like my judgement may have been right after seeing the under bidder had 17K feedback. Who actually takes the time to go look at bidding seconds? You are whacked man. Did I really have to clarify when I saw the bidder like it made a difference? You still mad I wouldn't trade my Walter Johnson T205 for your off centered 56 Jackie PSA 7 that should be a 6 or 5? Like Richard Sherman says... You Mad Bro?

And Mark you caught me too. What a lie I made.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

HOLY SMOKES. Are you serious Frank? You dissect everything lol I meant AFTER I won the auction and as I was waiting for the ball to come. I felt like my judgement may have been right after seeing the under bidder had 17K feedback. Who actually takes the time to go look at bidding seconds? You are whacked man. Did I really have to clarify when I saw the bidder like it made a difference? You still mad I wouldn't trade my Walter Johnson T205 for your off centered 56 Jackie PSA 7 that should be a 6 or 5? Like Richard Sherman says... You Mad Bro?

And Mark you caught me too. What a lie I made.

Frank if you are getting 1 and 2 grade bumps can I send you some cards to include on your next submission?

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Exactly.

Come on, Snookie.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

HOLY SMOKES. Are you serious Frank? You dissect everything.............................................

....................................

Stephen, you have finally stumbled upon the truth, for I am a retired general surgeon. I guess it's true that even a blind squirrel finds the nut sometimes.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

Come on, Snookie.

Tool bag definitely

[frankbmd]

This thread deserves a real ball.

The Ball.jpg

[ibuysportsephemera]

From the eBay auction- "This ball was looked at by an individual who works for Leland's Auction Company and it was in his opinion that this is a real game used ball from the 1920's".

What most of us already knew after seeing the actual eBay auction is that the "so called employee" is actually the guy who empties the trash cans and cleans the toilets at Lelands.

Jeff

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

From the eBay auction- "This ball was looked at by an individual who works for Leland's Auction Company and it was in his opinion that this is a real game used ball from the 1920's".

What most of us already knew after seeing the actual eBay auction is that the "so called employee" is actually the guy who empties the trash cans and cleans the toilets at Lelands.

Jeff

That's my cousin you're talking about. Stop

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

That's my cousin you're talking about. Stop

Then you should have contacted him to confirm his opinion.

On a serious note. You have posted several of these threads were you buy something for pennies on the dollar. Have you ever had any of these items turn out to be real? If so has the % of real items made it worth the hassles of returning all the obvious fakes.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Then you should have contacted him to confirm his opinion.

On a serious note. You have posted several of these threads were you buy something for pennies on the dollar. Have you ever had any of these items turn out to be real? If so has the % of real items made it worth the hassles of returning all the obvious fakes.

That is great question and one I am very happy you asked actually.

While I agree with you there have definitely been some downs in my hunt, there have been a few highs that made it soo worth it (for me at least).

One of my favorite pieces I have landed was a Brooklyn Dodger Equipment bag with Jackie, Hodges and Campys numbers on it. Another board member has one with just Jackies Number too. This is so freakin cool and I got it for an amazing price.

I also was able to land a Shoeless Joe Jackson Ferguson Bakery Pennant off eBay for 1/4 of what I sold it for. That was a really neat piece as well.

Another cool piece was a Jackie Robinson Wilson scorebook which featured his first game at Ebbetts field ever (right before opening day).

While some may find these items trivial, I don't have a humungous budget, so taking chances on items is the best I can hope for at this point in time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, the knowledge I am gaining is priceless by jumping in head first as well as the opinions I am receiving from knowledgeable board members.

With this ball alone, I have learned how to detect post WWII inks under UV light, as well as become even more familiar with the markings and the differences between balls in the early and late 20's (font's, pat'd, etc.)

I want to be able to contribute to this board at a very high level in many different aspects (especially as the older guys begin to leave us... I know that is a bit morbid) and this is the quickest way to learn IMO.

Sorry for the long winded post.