Unopened 48 Leaf Wax Pack from Mr Mint's RiP "Find"

[kevinlenane]

Pretty incredible item and back story if you ever researched the late Mr. Mint's claims. I was never able to find any evidence of the 48 leaf boxes he found but alas here is about 1/500th of the resultant booty. Pretty amazing but already at 13k with a week to go. Even if I wanted to spend the money I couldn't stop myself from popping the thing. Also no formal certification is a bit scary.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=44356

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Pretty incredible item and back story if you ever researched the late Mr. Mint's claims. I was never able to find any evidence of the 48 leaf boxes he found but alas here is about 1/500th of the resultant booty. Pretty amazing but already at 13k with a week to go. Even if I wanted to spend the money I couldn't stop myself from popping the thing. Also no formal certification is a bit scary.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...e?itemid=44356

But, the big question is...Would you eat the gum?



.

[Bill77]

If I was crazy enough to pay that much and open it darn right I'm eating the gum. Gotta get my moneys worth after all.

[nat]

When I was a kid, circa 1992, I bought an unopened pack of 1981 baseball cards. I don't remember who was in the pack, but I gave the gum to my brother, who proceeded to cut his tongue on it.

I'd be careful with the 1949 gum.

[ngnichols]

It would definitely be pretty sweet to pull a nicely centered HOF'er out of that, but I highly doubt you'd get your money back or profit from it if you did given the current bid and probably what it may end up getting to. Still cool though.

[Joshwesley]

No way I could buy that without opening it

What if there is a satchel in there that is close to mint?

What's the most the unopened pack will go for? 20k?

The paige could be worth 100k

[rats60]

Is there even a chance for a Paige? It doesn't say if it is a 1st or 2nd series pack. I think that would make a huge difference. Any 2nd series card in high grade will bring a lot. 1st series it would only be the stars, but a high grade Jackie would pay for the pack.

[Fistner10]

Pretty cool. My friend and I cracked some 1986 topps and tried the gum. Would not recommend it

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

But, the big question is...Would you eat the gum?



.

Child's play. I want to see somebody buy an OJ pack and smoke the cigarettes.

[Griffins]

Weren't all of the Leaf packs from the find 2nd series? And Rosen stated that he pulled relatively few Paige's? There is at least one other in existence.
With both end seals popped I strongly doubt this pack is gradeable, might as well break it open.
My bet is $21k on the final close.

[tedzan]

Hey guys

Here's the story on Rosen's 1949 LEAF find. Alan and I talked about these cards back in 1989 when he acquired the 4 unopened 24-count boxes. Each 5-cent
pack had 6 cards in it. And, the originally pink slab of Bubble gum had turned "purple" after 40 years.....(really don't recommend putting it in your mouth).

So, 96 packs x 6 cards each = 576 cards......all from the 2nd (short-printed) series. There was random distribution of the 49 subjects in this series, resulting
on the average of 12 cards each per subject. EXCEPT for Paige, of which there were only 3 cards.

The point I am trying to make here is.....there is almost no chance of this pack having a Paige in it.





..................... 1949 BOWMAN ............................................... 1949 LEAF .........................

[rats60]

If these are 2nd series, then there is no chance at Jackie, Ruth, Dimaggio, Williams, Musial, etc. If you are a long shot at Paige, then what is your expected value by pulling 6 2nd series "common" players?

[Griffins]

Ted- I"m seeing it a different way, but it's a theory.
the facts:
A. all the packs from this find were from the 2nd series, from what Rosen told you and wrote in his book
B. Based on the number of packs there were 576 cards
C. There are only 49 different possible in those 576
D. Based on the known 1st series sheet, Leaf's press sheet was 7 x7, so no short prints The boxing sheet I have is 7 x 7 as well, but we know Graziano got pulled and replaced.
E. Rosen stated he only pulled 3 Paige's.

Based on the above there should be an equal amount of each card, but Rosen stated he only pulled 3 Paige's. We assume this pack is from that find (likely, but not proven unless we can see a card in in. Given that the seals are popped it's not going to grade, you might as well peek) and the other pack I saw in the GAI holder years ago was definitely 2nd series, we know not everything was opened.
Doesn't this lead you to believe that it's more likely that a Paige is in what was left unopened, rather than less likely, since Rosen pulled so few?
Conversely, if Rosen pulled a dozen Doby's or Goodman's or whoever, wouldn't that make it less likely there were any left in the few packs that weren't opened?

[tedzan]

Hi Anthony

What concerns me regarding this pack, is that it appears that it may have been tampered with. And, if so and a Paige was found in it....he no longer is there.

Also, it is documented that BOWMAN sued LEAF in 1949 for the Rights to portray certain players; and, Paige was one of them. This fact factors into my belief
that LEAF pulled many of the Paige cards from their set.


Furthermore, here are 5 subjects that are usually on everyone's wantlist. And, as you know, these guys are very, very tough to find.

....





TED Z
.

[Griffins]

Ted, I have those same concerns too, along with a few others.

Didn't know about Bowman suing Leaf. But when I was working on this set a few cards were much tougher than they should have been. Paige I understand, his RC, and an iconic player. But a few others were commons.

Given how bad Leaf's press work was it wouldn't surprise me to find their collation, distribution, and legal work weren't just as sloppy.

[philliesphan]

Somewhat of a tangent here-

It's interesting to me that the 1948 Leaf set generally has such low graded populations across the board. A significant number of singles from the 1948 Leaf set (including HOFers) have total graded populations of fewer than 100.

Compare that to 1952 Topps, for instance, where most cards have 300+ examples graded. Even 1933 Goudey has very few examples with fewer than 200 graded.

Definitely seems to highlight either a low value to many cards in the set that doesn't warrant grading, or, perhaps, a significant scarcity compared to many of the other iconic sets of the era.

m

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Ted, I have those same concerns too, along with a few others.

Didn't know about Bowman suing Leaf. But when I was working on this set a few cards were much tougher than they should have been. Paige I understand, his RC, and an iconic player. But a few others were commons.

Given how bad Leaf's press work was it wouldn't surprise me to find their collation, distribution, and legal work weren't just as sloppy.

Anthony

In 1949, Warren Bowman initially sued the LEAF GUM Co. over the Copyright use of the name "BASEBALL BUBBLE GUM". This litigation escalated to the "Contractual Rights"
to portray certain players. I got some of this information from a conversation with Del Ennis in 1981. Incidentally, Ennis is in the 1949 LEAF set. Not the 1949 BOWMAN set.


Furthermore, BOWMAN and LEAF settled this dispute with the following decrees......

1....LEAF was limited to distribution of their 2nd series of Baseball cards (SP series) to Boston area, Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio.

2....LEAF was permitted to market their planned 1949 Foot Ball set in the Fall.

3....BOWMAN was not permitted to market their planned 1949 Foot Ball set.

4....BOWMAN could continue their planned High # Baseball series (cards #145 - 240) for distribution nationwide in the Fall of 1949 (which included Satchell Paige).


..................... 1949 BOWMAN ............................................... 1949 LEAF .........................

[1952boyntoncollector]

People forget that the pack has its own unique value. Its not just about what the 'potential' value is for the cards. For people that collect packs, its the pack that is the true rarity, not the cards that are inside. So its not a big deal if there is a 99.9999% or even a 100% chance that whatever cards are in the pack wont make more than what is paid for the pack.

[kevinlenane]

Can I just say thanks to all those who responded? Honestly this is why this board is so great. There is information here that just isn't searchable particularly the primary sources with Rosen. I just love all the context and history buried in the members here. Also as an aside - I dabbled in vintage pack opening videos on YouTube - I paused after about 12 videos but the interest was definitely there with one of my videos topping 10 thousand views. Anyway in one of the videos I crack a psa graded Bowman 52(or 51 can't recall) Football penny pack. Card was a horror show bc of the gum stain but the condition was flawless otherwise. Anyway after i shot the vidoe the gum just stared me down and dared me to eat it - so I did. It dissolved immediately into some kind of paint removal chemical which I immediately spat out. So that's 65 year old gum - maybe an additional 2 or 3 years livens it back up? Anyway I'm assuming that's a record for oldest piece of gum chewed on the board - so please send me donations for my future hospital bills.

[Eggoman]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

...Anyway after i shot the vidoe the gum just stared me down and dared me to eat it - so I did. It dissolved immediately into some kind of paint removal chemical which I immediately spat out. So that's 65 year old gum - maybe an additional 2 or 3 years livens it back up? Anyway I'm assuming that's a record for oldest piece of gum chewed on the board - so please send me donations for my future hospital bills.

KEVIN - Since you TRIED a piece of 60 year old gum, I would be willing to let you take on this 100 year old Egyptian Straights Cork Tipped cigarette to try!!!

Please let me know if interested and I will ship this gorgeous "Lung Dart" your way for free!



(Sorry to be a "Smart Ass" as I don't even know you, but the offer stands!)

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by Eggoman

KEVIN - Since you TRIED a piece of 60 year old gum, I would be willing to let you take on this 100 year old Egyptian Straights Cork Tipped cigarette to try!!!

Please let me know if interested and I will ship this gorgeous "Lung Dart" your way for free!



(Sorry to be a "Smart Ass" as I don't even know you, but the offer stands!)

Can't be any worse than some of the ratty weed we smoked in high school!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Can I just say thanks to all those who responded? Honestly this is why this board is so great. There is information here that just isn't searchable particularly the primary sources with Rosen. I just love all the context and history buried in the members here. Also as an aside - I dabbled in vintage pack opening videos on YouTube - I paused after about 12 videos but the interest was definitely there with one of my videos topping 10 thousand views. Anyway in one of the videos I crack a psa graded Bowman 52(or 51 can't recall) Football penny pack. Card was a horror show bc of the gum stain but the condition was flawless otherwise. Anyway after i shot the vidoe the gum just stared me down and dared me to eat it - so I did. It dissolved immediately into some kind of paint removal chemical which I immediately spat out. So that's 65 year old gum - maybe an additional 2 or 3 years livens it back up? Anyway I'm assuming that's a record for oldest piece of gum chewed on the board - so please send me donations for my future hospital bills.

I openned 5 cent packs of 54 and 55 Bowman where all the cards were ruined by the gum. Other packs where it was just the top card. So, anything is possible with this one.

[Jobu]

The box says "absolutely pure". What could go wrong?

Originally Posted by Eggoman

KEVIN - Since you TRIED a piece of 60 year old gum, I would be willing to let you take on this 100 year old Egyptian Straights Cork Tipped cigarette to try!!!

Please let me know if interested and I will ship this gorgeous "Lung Dart" your way for free!



(Sorry to be a "Smart Ass" as I don't even know you, but the offer stands!)

[Eggoman]

Originally Posted by Jobu

The box says "absolutely pure". What could go wrong?

I have one sitting in my Cigar Humidor for just the "RIGHT" occasion, but I don't know what that is...

Tobacco keeps & ages...I think...

[CW]

That escalated rather quickly. Sitting at $25K +BP right now.

[irv]

Originally Posted by CW

That escalated rather quickly. Sitting at $25K +BP right now.

$47,000 now!

[ruth-gehrig]

What's the highest price paid for an unopened pack?

[vthobby]

For an actual pack, I think the 1948 Leaf that is currently going crazy will be the highest but a 1948 Bowman Basketball Wax pack just sold in January for: $30,343.20!

Mike

[GasHouseGang]

I bet the people that originally purchased packs from the "Rosen Find" and opened them wish they had shown more will power. That pack sold for an incredible $57K!

[Snapolit1]

Do people assume that anything they get from an unopened pack from 65+ years ago will grade out as PSA 8 or 9? Obviously that's not true. Don't understand the wild speculation.

[Eggoman]

The Winning Bidder CANNOT possibly open that pack now, can they??? That's a ~$12,000 PER CARD poker hand????

[nat]

Maybe they're buying it because it's an unopened pack and don't intend to ever open it.

[GrayGhost]

I would hope it will stay closed. Buyer prob hopes it's rarity as a closed pack can justify his investment.

[Snapolit1]

I guess it stays closed . . . though I wouldnt be able to resist opening it.

[kevinlenane]

I will gladly smoke said 100 year old cigar - it should follow the 1954 gum quite nicely. I'm considering using some war-era Bond Bread as a pallet cleanser but I'll probably cut the crusts off before I do that. For those that are curious - here is the pack open resulting in what is surely a Guinness World record for the oldest gum chewed. I didn't masticate on camera but for clarity sake I took the largest fragment/shard you see in the pack and chewed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdiW1rXdNfk

[packs]

This thread inspired me to buy an unopened pack of 1951 Topps Red Backs. Only cost me $78 so I WILL be opening it. Not sure if I'll eat what's inside. I think it's caramel and not gum.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

Can I just say thanks to all those who responded? Honestly this is why this board is so great. There is information here that just isn't searchable particularly the primary sources with Rosen. I just love all the context and history buried in the members here. Also as an aside - I dabbled in vintage pack opening videos on YouTube - I paused after about 12 videos but the interest was definitely there with one of my videos topping 10 thousand views. Anyway in one of the videos I crack a psa graded Bowman 52(or 51 can't recall) Football penny pack. Card was a horror show bc of the gum stain but the condition was flawless otherwise. Anyway after i shot the vidoe the gum just stared me down and dared me to eat it - so I did. It dissolved immediately into some kind of paint removal chemical which I immediately spat out. So that's 65 year old gum - maybe an additional 2 or 3 years livens it back up? Anyway I'm assuming that's a record for oldest piece of gum chewed on the board - so please send me donations for my future hospital bills.

Somewhere around here I have a Colgan's tin that still has gum in it. That's ~108 years old now. I could smash your record if I was crazy enough.

[CW]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

What's the highest price paid for an unopened pack?

Looks like last night's Memory Lane auction may have set records for baseball, football, and basketball wax packs.

I was going to give some links, but looks like you did all the legwork in another thread so I will quote you here (haha, just now realized that the person I was replying to was the same person I was quoting)

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

Unopened 1948 Bowman Basketball Pack $55,200
http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...x?itemid=42937

Unopened 1952 Topps Baseball Pack $62,400
http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...x?itemid=42937

Unopened 1955 Topps Football Cello Pack $49,781
http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...x?itemid=42956

Unopened 1956 Topps Baseball Pack $29,249
http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...x?itemid=42961

Unopened 1958 Topps Baseball Pack $23,381
http://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/b...x?itemid=42961

[Eggoman]

Originally Posted by kevinlenane

I will gladly smoke said 100 year old cigar

Hey Kevin:

PM me your address and I will send you a GENUINE 100+ year old Egyptian Straights cigarette!!!

FOR REAL!

Greg

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by packs

This thread inspired me to buy an unopened pack of 1951 Topps Red Backs. Only cost me $78 so I WILL be opening it. Not sure if I'll eat what's inside. I think it's caramel and not gum.

If it's a Doubles pack it should only be just cards.

[Gary Dunaier]

Aren't there wines and such that are over 100 years old that connoisseurs drink and enjoy? Maybe it's comparing apples and oranges, but they're still consuming something older than they are!

[dbrown]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Child's play. I want to see somebody buy an OJ pack and smoke the cigarettes.

Thought of this when I watched this video about a collector opening a 1942 rations pack and bravely smoking one of the cigarettes -- and trying out the gum.

http://boingboing.net/2017/05/17/gen...ear-old-c.html

Cigarette/gum section starts at about 14:00

David