Advice on cleaning editing marks on silver gelatin photos

[T206Jim]

I recognize the best advice may be to leave well enough alone.

However, I am considering removing the "halo" and "H" editing marks from this Chief Bender photo. If I decide to clean it any advice on best practices to accomplish this?

[Leon]

When I read what you are going to do, I first thought Oh My Gosh. I am not an expert on what you are talking about so kind of got stuck there. Good luck. If it were mine I would probably leave it alone. It looks kind of fragile. I should add, I am referring to the Halo. The crop marks look a bit easier....though still outside of my expertise.

[koufax1fan]

Hello:
I have used a cotton ball or swab, it works very nicely in removing most crop marks.
Phil

[Exhibitman]

Pec-12 and the company's wipes are made for it. If the white stuff is water based you could also try a Q-Tip (well, many, many of them) dipped in distilled water. I did this photo of Kid Kaplan (HOF):

Before:



After:

[thecatspajamas]

Distilled water and Q-tips. Most editor's paint is water soluble, and as long as you don't wet the gelatin base to the point that it gets "gummy" you should be okay. Better to remove some, let it dry, then remove some more than to push your luck with doing it all in one go. Q-tips work well for delivering the water, and you can kind of twirl them slowly to lift up the paint once it's wet. Don't skimp on the Q-tips, and don't be afraid to take your time doing it in multiple passes one small area at a time.

Also, if this is your first attempt, pick up a couple of crappy photos with similar paint on them and practice. There's no need to get your feet wet with a nice photo as your first attempt.

[T206Jim]

Thanks guys, that was just the kind of advice I was looking for.

[bgar3]

I agree on the Q tips etc, great advice. However, before you do, make a quick search to see if you can find what this particular cropping was used for. It seems unusual to have his name on his hat and the image may have been used for something pretty nice. Worse case is you find it, make a copy, then get rid of the paint if you still want to. Anyway, worth considering I think.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bgar3

I agree on the Q tips etc, great advice. However, before you do, make a quick search to see if you can find what this particular cropping was used for. It seems unusual to have his name on his hat and the image may have been used for something pretty nice. Worse case is you find it, make a copy, then get rid of the paint if you still want to. Anyway, worth considering I think.

Reminds me of when I tried to erase, a later authenticated, Chief Myers autograph from this. (not mine any longer). The card is not light on the photo, where the signature is, as that is the scan doing that. It is a tiny bit lighter but not close to that much. In retrospect, I am glad I didn't keep trying to erase it....

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Leon

Reminds me of when I tried to erase, a later authenticated, Chief Myers autograph from this. (not mine any longer). The card is not light on the photo, where the signature is, as that is the scan doing that. It is a tiny bit lighter but not close to that much. In retrospect, I am glad I didn't keep trying to erase it....

It would have looked better without, so I don't blame you Curious as to how someone came to the conclusion that was his signature if you know?

[Leon]

No idea on the signature. I sent it in and that is what they said. And I know it isn't a signature but it is writing. I did compare it to some other exemplars and it looked similar to his writing. I got it from a board member with the signature on it, on ebay about 15 yrs ago, for about a hundred bucks.

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

It would have looked better without, so I don't blame you Curious as to how someone came to the conclusion that was his signature if you know?

[Bestdj777]

Very cool. Not doubting it's real, I just couldn't imagine looking at a card of Hal Chase and ever thinking that writing on it, without a full name, would belong to another great baseball player.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Very cool. Not doubting it's real, I just couldn't imagine looking at a card of Hal Chase and ever thinking that writing on it, without a full name, would belong to another great baseball player.

Me neither. I had no clue when I bought it and for the first 10? yrs I owned it that that signature was what it was. No clue at all....I thought it was just writing...LMAO (sorry to sidetrack the thread)

[T206Jim]

No worries Leon, I'll just provide the answer to the Chief Meyers question so we can return to the topic at hand.

It is because of the distinctive printing. Here are photos from my signed copy of The Glory of Their Times to illustrate the point.

[bgar3]

I love association copies of books, thanks for posting.

[Bicem]

That before and after is amazing Adam.

[Leon]

Thanks for posting those....

Originally Posted by T206Jim

No worries Leon, I'll just provide the answer to the Chief Meyers question so we can return to the topic at hand.

It is because of the distinctive printing. Here are photos from my signed copy of The Glory of Their Times to illustrate the point.

[sporteq]

I wanted to add, patience is also a huge tool. It might take some time to remove editorial/masking marks. Looking for quick results, could damage the photo.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by sporteq

I wanted to add, patience is also a huge tool. It might take some time to remove editorial/masking marks. Looking for quick results, could damage the photo.

+++1

Those editor's marks have been there for decades. It's worth the extra time spent to keep from damaging the underlying photo that has survived all this time.

[bobfreedman]

Using a Magic Eraser (for cleaning walls etc...) does an excellent job

[T206Jim]

Thanks for the advice guys, the Q-Tips and distilled water worked like a charm. See for yourself.

[Bpm0014]

^^^^ Awesome!! Great job and great picture!

[Leon]

Came out very nice. Congrats.

Originally Posted by T206Jim

Thanks for the advice guys, the Q-Tips and distilled water worked like a charm. See for yourself.

[Trublubrucru]

My first try was a success. Patience and a lot of Q-tips is key. This is my first photo in uniform of my cousin Johnny Golemgeske, Captain of the Wisconsin Badgers 1936. He played for the Brooklyn Dodgers from 1937-40. The de-cropping made him look stockier too.

[71buc]

I have done this to photos as well. One nagging concern I have had is the long term effects of water on the photo emulsion and paper. A 100 year old photo can become dry and brittle. I'm sure the paper such beneath the 100 year old emulsion would absorb water like a sponge. As the photo dries out again is it possible that the emulsion could separate from the photo and flake off in the future? In the short term you benefit from improved appearance I'm curious about potential damage in the long term.

[Exhibitman]

I've never seen any damage.

[horzverti]

I think Mike has a valid concern whether there will be damage in the long term. It is definitely a good question to ask. He used a 100 year old photo as an example in this post. Considering the age of his example photo, "long term" could be defined as 25+ more years in the future. Although I have been removing editor's ink (using water) for several years, I don't have a 25 year old sample to judge whether damage occured as a result of using water.
I will update this post in 15 years when I have a 25 year old post-removal using water example.

[thecatspajamas]

I would be very cautious with any photo that had cracking, crazing, or otherwise allowed water to get to the paper substrate. I emphasize again, go slow, be careful, and if the gelatin surface appears to be getting gummy or sticky or otherwise absorbing the water, stop and let it dry completely.

This is NOT the same as soaking cards from an album, and there may well be an age or "brittleness" of the gelatin surface beyond which one would not want to attempt this on an amateur level. I do not think I have attempted it on any 100+ year old photos, and do not think I would personally be comfortable doing so on a photo that had surface damage (loss or cracking of the emulsion surface).

[Runscott]

What Lance said. With most of these 'adventures' in memorabilia repair, I recommend reading what each expert says, then going a little more slowly and carefully than your comfort level.