Cards for Aaron Hernandez, OJ, etc.

[Snapolit1]

Seems to me that people shy away from cards and memorabilia for the truly awful athletes who have murdered, done other heinous stuff, etc. Kind of surprises me knowing what I think I know about human nature. People are very fascinated with murderers and evil in general. Hence shows like the Sopranos, Breaking Bad and countless others. Plenty of market for Al Capone pictures, John Gacy paintings, Nazi momentos, etc. Not passing any judgment on it pro or con, just surprised that sports stuff connected to these guys seems to go down in value and not up.
Not looking for a speech about how sick people must be, etc., etc. Just making an observation. (And maybe I'm wrong. Has happened before.)

[steve B]

The cards do seem to lose a lot of value if the player turns out to be that bad. Oddly some stuff that's also bad but more common mostly gets a pass.

I think the market for sports cards is different enough from the market for memorabilia from other lousy people that there's not much overlap. The fascination with Capone and maybe some others is that they got where they did by being pretty bad people. So I think there's a bit of fascination with their badness and luck at not getting taken out by another pretty bad person on their way to the top. (Maybe why Dexter was a popular show?)

But sports figures are generally fascinating because of amazing natural talent and often a lot of hard work and overcoming something to get to where they're admired for their talent. When they prove to be bad people who just happened to get lucky in the DNA lottery we're all disappointed more than we'd be at someone like Capone (who didn't seem to get much of anything in the DNA lottery)


Interesting story that's a bit of crossover. I met someone who interviewed a lot of the six day bike racers from the 30's, and he said they had a love/hate relationship with Capone. He was a huge cycling fan, and would show up to the Chicago six days after his clubs closed. Of course, there were hardly any fans in the early morning hours so the riders usually took that as riding but not racing downtime. Then Capone would show up. And he wanted to see racing. And nobody wanted to disappoint him. So they'd race, and if they slowed down he'd put up prizes for sprints. Like hundreds of dollars every few laps. So they hated that he wouldn't just let them loaf and rest, but loved the prize money. They also arranged that the prizes were "won" somewhat evenly. They assumed Capone knew but was ok with the rigged sprints as long as the show looked real.

Steve B

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by steve B

The cards do seem to lose a lot of value if the player turns out to be that bad. Oddly some stuff that's also bad but more common mostly gets a pass.

I think the market for sports cards is different enough from the market for memorabilia from other lousy people that there's not much overlap. The fascination with Capone and maybe some others is that they got where they did by being pretty bad people. So I think there's a bit of fascination with their badness and luck at not getting taken out by another pretty bad person on their way to the top. (Maybe why Dexter was a popular show?)

But sports figures are generally fascinating because of amazing natural talent and often a lot of hard work and overcoming something to get to where they're admired for their talent. When they prove to be bad people who just happened to get lucky in the DNA lottery we're all disappointed more than we'd be at someone like Capone (who didn't seem to get much of anything in the DNA lottery)


Interesting story that's a bit of crossover. I met someone who interviewed a lot of the six day bike racers from the 30's, and he said they had a love/hate relationship with Capone. He was a huge cycling fan, and would show up to the Chicago six days after his clubs closed. Of course, there were hardly any fans in the early morning hours so the riders usually took that as riding but not racing downtime. Then Capone would show up. And he wanted to see racing. And nobody wanted to disappoint him. So they'd race, and if they slowed down he'd put up prizes for sprints. Like hundreds of dollars every few laps. So they hated that he wouldn't just let them loaf and rest, but loved the prize money. They also arranged that the prizes were "won" somewhat evenly. They assumed Capone knew but was ok with the rigged sprints as long as the show looked real.

Steve B

I think your thoughts are right on. It's like, "you were a real lucky sob and I only wish I had the opportunity you did to be a star athlete . . ." And you blew it.

And that's a great story.

[packs]

Right or wrong there is a certain romantic view of the mob that has persevered over the violence associated with them. But I think people find it harder to have a romantic view of someone like OJ or Aaron Hernandez. I think the change in media access / what the public has access to causes a shift as well. You might know that Capone was a bad guy, but if you try to find hard hitting contemporary editorials that detail his murders I think you'll find there isn't much out there. When OJ went to trial the whole world saw the photos, heard the autopsy report, etc.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by packs

Right or wrong there is a certain romantic view of the mob that has persevered over the violence associated with them. But I think people find it harder to have a romantic view of someone like OJ or Aaron Hernandez. I think the change in media access / what the public has access to causes a shift as well. You might know that Capone was a bad guy, but if you try to find hard hitting contemporary editorials that detail his murders I think you'll find there isn't much out there. When OJ went to trial the whole world saw the photos, heard the autopsy report, etc.

Agree to all of that. But it's not like OJ benefits if someone sells a PSA 9 OJ rookie card tommorow on PWCC. I guess, like you say, people have seen the details of the crime and just don't want to be associated with it.

[ls7plus]

In essence, the card connects the collector to the player and takes you back to the time. Stated otherwise, it is in fact a two-dimensional slice of a three-dimensional moment in the player's life and career taken contemporaneously with the time.

In a nutshell, what collector wants to be connected to or identify with Hernandez or Simpson?

Best wishes to all,

Larry

[familytoad]

I had a few 1973 Al Cowlings cards that I didn't care about...the local card store owner was selling OJ cards pretty briskly during the trial year...so I brought him some of the Cowlings cards , just because...I probably traded them for 3 dollars worth of wax.

When I moved out of town a couple years later those Cowlings cards were still sitting there in a 25 cent bin, unsold. Al who?

I don't have any Aaron Hernandez or Rae Carruth cards but if I did, I would throw them away in disgust.

On the other hand, I dislike OJ , but I am collecting many multiple sets of 1971 Topps FB and I need a bunch of OJ cards #260. I close my eyes when I put those cards in my binders , but I still need more to fill my sets...anyone similarly appalled by this "famous football player" want to unload your 1971 Topps #260 ?

[lrspaulp]

Just looked on eBay, lots of bids on signature stuff and jerseys for this guy.......

[steve B]

Once again proving the old "there's no such thing as bad publicity"

The prison sentence and early death does mean the signature stuff won't exactly be super common, but I think in the long run the demand just won't be there. If he'd killed himself before the super bowl, the demand would already be gone.

Crazy prediction, look for prices on his stuff to drop back to where It was or lower right after the draft.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Isnt the horrors of war hitler card one of the holy grails of nonsports? Different because it is historical?

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Isnt the horrors of war hitler card one of the holy grails of nonsports? Different because it is historical?

Hitler has three cards in the HoW set, and those are the three most valuable cards in the set. But it's not like they are as rare and valuable as some of the other non-sports holy grails that sell for five figures when they hit auction (I'm Going To Be Strongman, U.S. Caramel Presidents McKinley, N519 Marquis of Lorne). Each of the three Hitler cards can be had for a few hundred dollars in low/medium grade when they appear in an auction.

The final 48 cards in the HoW set are short-printed and not as common as the first 240 cards in the set, but each of the Hitler cards has around 100 examples that have been graded by PSA. There are a bunch of different non-sport sets in which a prize redemption card has less than 10 known copies. Card No. 4 in the 1935 "I'm Going To Be" set (strongman) only has one known copy, and it has been punched with numerous holes to void the card for future prize redemption.

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...iving-example/

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...ly-discovered/

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...o-insert-card/