T206 Lajoie Lenox PSA 4 at Goodwin

[CMIZ5290]

$26K? Really? unbelievable.....Black Lenox, not brown! This one makes no sense at all....

[Sean]

Is it a 1 of 1 situation? If so, I'm guessing David Hall was involved.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Or 2 people with a back run of the same card that both like sitting around lighting money on fire on the weekends with other people that like setting money on fire.

If David Hall is still collecting..

[RedsFan1941]

At a show a couple weeks ago I talked to a Cleveland collector who had the opinion that that Lajoie actually was a brown Lenox mislabeled by PSA. I guess David hall doesn't differentiate between brown and black lenoxxes so maybe PSA doesn't either? Anyway, I wonder whether other bidders thought maybe the Lenox was brown? Was tought to tell one way or another on my comp screen.

[Bigb13]

Maybe I should put my Ty Cobb away.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Or 2 people with a back run of the same card that both like sitting around lighting money on fire on the weekends with other people that like setting money on fire.

If David Hall is still collecting..

Phillip- why don't you email David and ask him?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Bigb13

Maybe I should put my Ty Cobb away.

Or at least put pics and prices up...

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Sean

Is it a 1 of 1 situation? If so, I'm guessing David Hall was involved.

Sean, Even if Hall was involved, it takes two to tango.....

[Bigb13]

I do have front and back pictures up with a price or best offer.

[asoriano]

Makes this one look like a steal...

http://brockelmanauctions.com/LotDet...ventoryid=1502

[Brian Weisner]

Hey Turner,
The Lajoie Brown Lenox was sold raw in Hunt Auctions in February of 2004, for $2800. At the time the card was identified incorrectly as a black Lenox. I believe the card still resides in the collection of a long time Lajoie collector and contributor here for many years.
Hope you are well
Brian

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bigb13

maybe i should put my ty cobb away.

lololol

[Bigb13]

Originally Posted by calvindog

lololol

Lolololololololol

[Rhotchkiss]

T206 red Cobb Cycle 350, PSA 3, currently at $8,400 with BP at Goldin. Not that rare of a card... Only proves further that rare backs are all jacked and overpriced and this is making the Nap Lenox look like a relative bargain!

[CW]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

T206 red Cobb Cycle 350, PSA 3, currently at $8,400 with BP at Goldin. Not that rare of a card... Only proves further that rare backs are all jacked and overpriced and this is making the Nap Lenox look like a relative bargain!

I'm not sure I follow. Rare backs are overpriced, yet the Lajoie was a bargain at $25K? Huh? It's late and I'm tired, but I can't comprehend how something can be overpriced yet still be a bargain.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Makes this one look like a steal...

http://brockelmanauctions.com/LotDet...ventoryid=1502

Back THeN I SoLD my PSA 8 Namath Rookie fir $6K...
Whata They Like, $40k Now!?!?
(There iS One ComiN up iN REA...
VeRY Curious to See WHaT Mr. Namath Sells fir!?

Fir Sum Cards... 7 Years Ago was a Different WoRLD!!!

[pete zouras]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

T206 red Cobb Cycle 350, PSA 3, currently at $8,400 with BP at Goldin. Not that rare of a card... Only proves further that rare backs are all jacked and overpriced and this is making the Nap Lenox look like a relative bargain!

Suddenly my highest valued card.

[Rhotchkiss]

Yes, agreed, "overpriced" and "bargain" used simultaneously to refer to the same subject is necessarily oxymoronic and logically inconsistent. My point was simply that if $9000 for Cobb Cycle 350s is the new normal, then $24k for the Nap is, IMO, a relative steal. That said, I remember feeling about real estate in 2007, how I do about rare backs today..... I think things are "whack" but in this whack world I would rather have the Nap at $24k than the Cobb cycle at $9k (although they are both great). The Nap is a once a decade/maybe lifetime card, and assuming the buyer paid that sum to collect, price doesn't really matter on card like that (if buyer can reasonably afford to stroke the check).

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yes, agreed, "overpriced" and "bargain" used simultaneously to refer to the same subject is necessarily oxymoronic and logically inconsistent. My point was simply that if $9000 for Cobb Cycle 350s is the new normal, then $24k for the Nap is, IMO, a relative steal. That said, I remember feeling about real estate in 2007, how I do about rare backs today..... I think things are "whack" but in this whack world I would rather have the Nap at $24k than the Cobb cycle at $9k (although they are both great). The Nap is a once a decade/maybe lifetime card, and assuming the buyer paid that sum to collect, price doesn't really matter on card like that (if buyer can reasonably afford to stroke the check).

Why do you presume that an outlying price in a Goldin auction of all places somehow sets the new value range of rare backed T206s?

[Rhotchkiss]

I presume nothing of the sort. Over the past few weeks I have seen red Cobbs CB (with back damage) and cycle 350s, go for crazy numbers. I got outbid on a Young bare hand OM 6, at a very very high number. About two weeks ago, as posted elsewhere, somebody over the course of 1-2 days took down every rare back CB and rarer, all commons and all listings that had been out there for many many months. Just a few examples... I am hanging my hat on the totality of fairly recent sales. The Nap, well hell, that is something special and on a card like that you gotta pay what you gotta pay to make it yours.

[calvindog]

I don't think that a couple weeks of sales which include a Goldin auction necessarily means the market has changed. That being said, red Cobbs have certainly taken off over the past few years along with many cards. As for the Lajoie, it sold as a brown Lenox and is as rare as you said -- and of a HOF player.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

Back THeN I SoLD my PSA 8 Namath Rookie fir $6K...
Whata They Like, $40k Now!?!?
(There iS One ComiN up iN REA...
VeRY Curious to See WHaT Mr. Namath Sells fir!?

Fir Sum Cards... 7 Years Ago was a Different WoRLD!!!

I'm the same way...sole my Namath rookie '7', for $2,000.....I feel like an idiot now.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I'm the same way...sole my Namath rookie '7', for $2,000.....I feel like an idiot now.

Bobby,
I was a Genius Back THeN!
AFTaR HoLDiN'em fir a Few Years, I Made $3800!

You're Certainly Not aN idiot,
I Truly Don't Believe THaT You Lost Cash... "Am I Correct!?"
Your Experience WiLL ONLy MaKe You Wiser my Friend!!!

Namath's Card is JuST One Example of "HeLPiN me Read"
The "AFTaR the Baby Boomar Market"!

The New Money Seems ta be Slowly TaKeN OVaR Wit Sum Players,
And Down RiGHT KiLLiN iT Wit Others, ie... "Pick a Cobb" !!!

[CMIZ5290]

$25K is still a ridiculous price for this card, period...It definitely sold as a Brown Lenox and then some...

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

$25K is still a ridiculous price for this card, period...It definitely sold as a Brown Lenox and then some...

if you owned it and listed it on the BST, what price would you ask?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

$25K is still a ridiculous price for this card, period...It definitely sold as a Brown Lenox and then some...

Yes of course it sold as a brown. No question. Once it passed 7-8K or so it was clear everyone thought it was brown.

[Sean]

Goodwin claims that the Lenox is black, and the only one graded by PSA.

I don't see this or any other with a Lenox back listed in their pop report.

The card clearly looks black in the scan. So I don't get it. Maybe someone with more skill than me can double check the PSA pop report?

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I don't think that a couple weeks of sales which include a Goldin auction necessarily means the market has changed. That being said, red Cobbs have certainly taken off over the past few years along with many cards. As for the Lajoie, it sold as a brown Lenox and is as rare as you said -- and of a HOF player.

A single transaction is always what defines the start of a change, no matter how small. Repeat transactions dictate how sticky the change will be.

One could easily speculate why it sold at the price it did, but that would be speculation. No offense meant, but lots of people on here postulate facts. It is sad and hilarious at the same time. Your post is just that, speculation. Trying to determine reasoning of a person based on price is, no offense meant again, moronic.

The Murphy Red Hindu 1/1 must have sold at the price it did because the two buyers that fought over it thought it was a Purple Hindu.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

A single transaction is always what defines the start of a change, no matter how small. Repeat transactions dictate how sticky the change will be.

One could easily speculate why it sold at the price it did, but that would be speculation. No offense meant, but lots of people on here postulate facts. It is sad and hilarious at the same time. Your post is just that, speculation. Trying to determine reasoning of a person based on price is, no offense meant again, moronic.

The Murphy Red Hindu 1/1 must have sold at the price it did because the two buyers that fought over it thought it was a Purple Hindu.

Except that I spoke to people who bid it up and they did so under the belief that it was brown. Therefore, what I wrote is not speculation. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut so as not to be revealed as a moron. No offense meant.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Except that I spoke to people who bid it up and they did so under the belief that it was brown. Therefore, what I wrote is not speculation. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut so as not to be revealed as a moron. No offense meant.

Lol. Yea.

Well, no one proves you wrong, ever. I will not ask you to validate it with facts like others would. I will just chalk up to a loss of moronic proportions.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Lol. Yea.

Well, no one proves you wrong, ever. I will not ask you to validate it with facts like others would. I will just chalk up to a loss of moronic proportions.

Let's see: before Mastro and Allen were indicted, years before, there was enough anecdotal information in the public domain -- none of it from any of them or their co-conspirators -- which made clear that fraud was afoot in their auctions. They're all in jail now. John Rodgers? Another one where circumstantial evidence existed to make clear, at least to some here, that he was a crook. He's now headed off to prison. Brent/PWCC? Again, no insiders came out and declared that fraud was going on in his auctions and a handful of people who were neither his paid apologists or co-conspirators called it. And I think we can all agree that significant fraud has gone on in his auctions. And there are many more instances of this.

And you can ask me anything you'd like; that doesn't mean I would share my insights from being involved in more hobby related-federal criminal investigations and indictments, state fraud cases and civil fraud litigations than anyone on this board, with a proud moron like you. Sometimes it's just best to shut up and listen instead of demanding to be heard, especially when you have not a clue -- or the experience and intelligence to at least know you have not a clue.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Let's see: before Mastro and Allen were indicted, years before, there was enough anecdotal information in the public domain -- none of it from any of them or their co-conspirators -- which made clear that fraud was afoot in their auctions. They're all in jail now. John Rodgers? Another one where circumstantial evidence existed to make clear, at least to some here, that he was a crook. He's now headed off to prison. Brent/PWCC? Again, no insiders came out and declared that fraud was going on in his auctions and a handful of people who were neither his paid apologists or co-conspirators called it. And I think we can all agree that significant fraud has gone on in his auctions. And there are many more instances of this.

And you can ask me anything you'd like; that doesn't mean I would share my insights from being involved in more hobby related-federal criminal investigations and indictments, state fraud cases and civil fraud litigations than anyone on this board, with a proud moron like you. Sometimes it's just best to shut up and listen instead of demanding to be heard, especially when you have not a clue -- or the experience and intelligence to at least know you have not a clue.

Oh, I did. I stood there at the National last year and I listened to lots of conversations about you, actually. You do not the know the first thing about me or what I know.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Oh, I did. I stood there at the National last year and I listened to lots of conversations about you, actually. You do not the know the first thing about me or what I know.

Great. When you're done sniffing my jock let me know.

[PhillipAbbott79]

I was not sniffing. It was an overwhelming stench that resonated through the entire card show. You like it stinky. You should be proud.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I was not sniffing. It was an overwhelming stench that resonated through the entire card show. You like it stinky. You should be proud.

Mastro and Allen hate me as well. As does Rodgers, Brent and any number of miscreants in the hobby. I can live with that. You keep being you and I'll keep being me.

[PhillipAbbott79]

I hate to break this to you, but these were people on my side of the table. I will just let you win. You need that so you can stop posting right?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

I hate to break this to you, but these were people on my side of the table. I will just let you win. You need that so you can stop posting right?

I haven't posted more than a couple of times on the main board in about 18 months I believe. So no, I don't need a word from you to stop posting --- I just need to remind myself that there's no point in getting into pissing contests with nobodies who spend their time discussing me at the National. Phillip.

[PhillipAbbott79]

I told you that you won. Maybe I was wrong. Your post count, is irrelevant of your personality and post style. You don't need to win, you need to have the last post or you need to convince yourself that you won. Also, I never said I discussed you. You have a reading comprehension issue it seems.

[calvindog]

Considering how little you know about the hobby, why would I believe anything that you say here? Ok, Philip who I've never heard of and who has not made even the slightest impression in this hobby -- other than in being a pontificating moron on Net 54 -- I'm done here.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Ha. See. Last post.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.goodwinandco.com/T206_Len...-LOT35018.aspx

Not sure what people are seeing here that they think it's brown?

[PhillipAbbott79]

They are not. That was the point. This guy definitely doesn't want the card: http://imageevent.com/ineedanap/t206

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Jeff says he talked to people who thought it was brown and were bidding accordingly, then people were thinking that. Maybe they had other scans, I don't know.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

They are not. That was the point. This guy definitely doesn't want the card: http://imageevent.com/ineedanap/t206

Not sure what this link is, but it's bogus.

[PhillipAbbott79]

What he said was, based on the price it was obvious that people thought it was brown.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Not sure what this link is, but it's bogus.

Not sure what happened there.

It looks like you can only get to the page a specific way

https://www.google.com/search?q=t206...eiUMM:&spf=213

or the person just saw this and put up a password.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

What he said was, based on the price it was obvious that people thought it was brown.

No, read post 29 again.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

They are not. That was the point. This guy definitely doesn't want the card: http://imageevent.com/ineedanap/t206

Why don't you call him up and ask him if he bid on the card and what color he believes the Goodwin Lajoie Lenox is?

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No, read post 29 again.

I was citing post 26 which came before 29.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

They are not. That was the point. This guy definitely doesn't want the card: http://imageevent.com/ineedanap/t206

Again, why don't you call him up and ask him if he bid on the card and what color he believes the Goodwin Lajoie Lenox is?