Grading idiocy

[Snapolit1]

Clear that the focus on grading has truly gutted the hobby of its heart and soul. Has led to endless manipulation and fraud, not to mention gouging by the PSA and SGC and the others. It used to be about more than grading but I guess that the world we live in. Depressing to say the least.

On a totally unrelated note, I am looking to buy a nice Gehrig WWG, grade 5 or higher only. Thanks.

[Scocs]

Is your post satirical?

[steve B]

All that stuff went on before grading.

It just costs more with grading.

Steve B

[Leon]

We need grading....
Before and after.....(can't believe soaking did this!!)

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Leon

We need grading....
Before and after.....(can't believe soaking did this!!)

Lol, that Young came up in my saved searches...I told my son it was the rare transparent nipples version.

[JustinD]

Grading is better for the layman than it was before, I think for the more informed folks it's negligible. The value of PSA over raw or ever other companies shows the influence of less informed investors buying in to the hobby for profit.

Will it stay this way? If the profits are there to be made then yes.

Right now those folks are buying a brand name for the security they feel the grade gives.

I remember the 80's and everyone walking around with those silly lucite gridded card measurement devices because trimming was so rampant. New collectors were frustrated after getting burned and the grading companies filled a void.

The real reason for all this is the focus on condition by the majority of collectors. With the money involved people will find a new way to work the system every time the old way is discovered...it's just an inevitability.

[swarmee]

The hole in the throat reminds me of "Terri" in those stop smoking commercials.

[Rookiemonster]

One hell of a soak . I wish I could get a soak like that !

[MW1]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

On a totally unrelated note, I am looking to buy a nice Gehrig WWG, grade 5 or higher only. Thanks.

That's a really tough card. Looks like there are only 10 examples graded between PSA and SGC, although a number of those could be either crack-outs or cross-overs.

One of the biggest problems you'll find in locating high-grade examples of the 1936 World Wide Gehrig is that he was extremely well-known at the time (unlike Dimaggio). That means his cards usually received quite a bit of handling. In all likelihood, you're probably looking at a card where there are less than 50 EX or better examples in all of cartephilia.

[SMPEP]

Okay forgive my ignorance Leon ... are those the same two cards or were you just making a joke?

(If that's true, I had no clue cards could be doctored THAT well.)

Cheers,
Patrick

[Leon]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Okay forgive my ignorance Leon ... are those the same two cards or were you just making a joke?

(If that's true, I had no clue cards could be doctored THAT well.)

Cheers,
Patrick

joke

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

On a totally unrelated note, I am looking to buy a nice Gehrig WWG, grade 5 or higher only. Thanks.

Hang tight, Steve. I'm sure a PSA 7 will appear on eBay as a BIN for $120k at some point soon.

[swarmee]

Same card, except the PSA 7 was cracked out and damaged to get the rarer PSA 1 variation. I think it should have been Authentic-Altered instead!

No, it's a completely different card.

[orly57]

I don't think that grading is the problem. I think that collectors mindlessly buying flips over cards is the problem. We can blame SGC or PSA all we want, but guys will still pay 10x the amount for a subpar 5 than they would for a GORGEOUS 2. We base too much of our pricing on the grade of the card over the appearance of the card. I can't understand why (for example) a psa 4 Goudey Ruth is worth more than a much nicer 2. If population is about the same, what really makes the 4 more valuable? The Flip? It is not graders, but rather, it is our grade-worship that is to blame.
Here are 3 of my t206 cobbs. A 4.5, and two 3s. These cards are as nice as any 7 or 8 and at a small fraction of the price. These cards would be worth over 10x what they are worth if they were in the right flip (and they look the part). Then we wonder why people alter cards. Our grade-worship has made the flip more valuable than the card. Remember when we just liked buying great looking cards like these?

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think that grading is the problem. I think that collectors mindlessly buying flips over cards is the problem. We can blame SGC or PSA all we want, but guys will still pay 10x the amount for a subpar 5 than they would for a GORGEOUS 2. We base too much of our pricing on the grade of the card over the appearance of the card. I can't understand why (for example) a psa 4 Goudey Ruth is worth more than a much nicer 2. If population is about the same, what really makes the 4 more valuable? The Flip? It is not graders, but rather, it is our grade-worship that is to blame.
Here are 3 of my t206 cobbs. A 4.5, and two 3s. These cards are as nice as any 7 or 8 and at a small fraction of the price. These cards would be worth over 10x what they are worth if they were in the right flip (and they look the part). Then we wonder why people alter cards. Our grade-worship has made the flip more valuable than the card. Remember when we just liked buying great looking cards like these?

Those are great looking cards Orlando. You might want to have a Joe Orlando buddy turn it in for you to be graded. I'm sure these cards would qualify for the friends and family treatment.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by orly57

I don't think that grading is the problem. I think that collectors mindlessly buying flips over cards is the problem. We can blame SGC or PSA all we want, but guys will still pay 10x the amount for a subpar 5 than they would for a GORGEOUS 2. We base too much of our pricing on the grade of the card over the appearance of the card. I can't understand why (for example) a psa 4 Goudey Ruth is worth more than a much nicer 2. If population is about the same, what really makes the 4 more valuable? The Flip? It is not graders, but rather, it is our grade-worship that is to blame.
Here are 3 of my t206 cobbs. A 4.5, and two 3s. These cards are as nice as any 7 or 8 and at a small fraction of the price. These cards would be worth over 10x what they are worth if they were in the right flip (and they look the part). Then we wonder why people alter cards. Our grade-worship has made the flip more valuable than the card. Remember when we just liked buying great looking cards like these?

Those cards are exactly why we need grading. I'd hate to pay big money for those cards only to find a hairline crease upon closer examination.

[orly57]

I agree. Like I said, grading isn't the Problem. If you prefer to pay 20k for an identical card that doesn't have a microscopic defect, then you as a collector should be protected.

[Yoda]

Leon, OMG, did the soaking remove Cy's football helmet? That variation was very special.

[familytoad]

Grade worship!

Brilliant , and spot on assessment of the culture that we are in, Orly.

Of course, we are smart collectors on this board.
We know what a nice card looks like. About 1 in 10 posts is about grading complaints or grading system issues, but we still know which cards are nice despite the assigned TPG.

When we utilize the TPG, we will often disagree with their paid opinion.
That's no different than disagreeing with a mail order dealer from the old days, or the hopeful listing description of a eBay dealer.

I love that cards come in all different grades, low and high. I like them low.
Not only are the low ones cheaper, but there are fewer disagreements on P/F/G cards.

[familytoad]

IMG_0064.JPG
Still one of my favorite cards, even if it's POOR

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by orly57

I agree. Like I said, grading isn't the Problem. If you prefer to pay 20k for an identical card that doesn't have a microscopic defect, then you as a collector should be protected.

I agree with most comments so far, though I think what Paul said is no way stating a preference toward paying 10X-20x for higher grade cards. I think the point is that grading does help the buyer weed out some of the scammers like Battlefield who would have listed those Cobbs raw, as "NM+++++ EXTRAORDINARY!!!! BLAZER!!!"

Your cards are absolutely gorgeous Orlando, no question. The "3" simply informs a perspective buyer there is some sort of otherwise hidden flaw. That said, I think most of us here would be more than happy to pay the lower price for those cards (thank a 6 or 7), and live with their "flaws".

[orly57]

I know. And that is precisely how I read the comment Ian. I actually agree 100% with him. I wasn't referring to Paul in particular when I wrote "If you prefer...." I meant that grading companies are meant to protect the high grade collector in that fashion. Hope my comment didn't come across any way other than that.
Look, if we all had huge bucks, we would all collect 8s,9's, and 10's. I didn't put up my cards to compare them to 8's. I put them up because as nice as they are, grade-worshippers would pay more for an ugly 5 than for a gorgeous 3. And that was the point of my post anyway.