OT New $22,000.00 set from Topps..

[bigfanNY]

Got a marketing email for a new set offered from Topps called Transcendent. It comes in a silver briefcase with about 170 cards with about 40 autographs for $22,000. I saw a few already on ebay with a Christy Mathewson 1/1 boxtopper listed currently for $19,000. Only 65 sets available and I think they already sold out. I will wait a bit and try and get at least 1 as a type just to tell the story of the $22,000 set.

[conor912]

Manufactured scarcity, at it's finest. I swear that shouldn't even be legal.

[irv]

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=230598

[swarmee]

The design of the cut box topper cards are awful, and some of the frames are falling off the cards right out of the box. Biggest hit in most boxes is the ability to have a night hanging out with Kris Bryant in Las Vegas (on a Wednesday).

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The design of the cut box topper cards are awful, and some of the frames are falling off the cards right out of the box.

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

Before:


After:

[sycks22]

Chopping up a historical document to fit into a card is tough to see. What a waste.

[Snapolit1]

That's an abomination.

I see these guys all the time on eBay trying to sell a Ruth or Gehrig chopped up autograph for $10,000 because it's some 1 of 1 from some recent set. Ridiculous. You could buy a nice signed photo or doc for that. Stupidity.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

Before:


After:

That's pretty disgusting.

............and somehow it's worth more because now it's part of a "card".

I don't get this hobby sometimes.

[dabigyankeeman]

This set and its price is total insanity. Think of the Ruth, Gehrig, etc cards that could be bought with the money they are charging. I can't wrap my head around the expensive modern stuff. Maybe this is ok for a big gambler, but its not for me.

[iowadoc77]

This whole concept is ridiculous. And it is getting worse in a hurry. There are only so many Matthewson signatures and to see them hacked up... awful
And the card companies have dug themselves so deep a hole with new names like flawless and transcendent, and other garbage. Where does it start? It all has to be a one-up of the previous product. What is the upper price limit? This is all made for the case breakers. Few people actually pay $22000 for this unless they are going to sell spots in a case or box break of it. People who buy this crap for resale are going to get their backsides handed to them.
One of the countless reasons i stick to prewar.

[Yoda]

Another sign that the apocalypse is near.

[rjackson44]

as my father once said a sucker born every minute ...

[rjackson44]

oh one more thing do an ebay completed search on this ,,nothing is selling ...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

Before:


After:

I saw this also. The original was 4x6, topps could have designed the oversized "card" around this. I don't see it stated anywhere but it appears they box toppers may be 5x7 so they could have still done a nice matte with frame.

If you are going to cut it up why not take the time to make a nice presentation with a photo of the player. Some of these do have photos and some don't. The original sold for $7170 in Heritage last year. We will see what the new value is after this sells.

[Luke]

This stuff makes me sick to my stomach. I remember the first time I heard about a card company cutting up a bat that Jimmie Foxx had used. It just makes me sad.

I can't understand how there is even one person out there who would want a piece of a cut up bat on a card (or a cut up signature) rather than whatever other piece of memorabilia or autograph they could buy with the same money.

[packs]

I will never understand why Topps can't use redemption cards instead of those cut up abominations. Wouldn't the person who pulled the card rather have the complete item? What kind of monster would prefer a card like that?

[bbcard1]

There was a box break (or case break if you prefer) at $159 per slot that sold out pretty quickly. It should yield the breaker a cool $5K in profit. I would have thought about taking a slot but with my luck would have ended up with the Jose Batista sketch card.

[Shoebox]

But what if I own a game used bat and the buy a second and put it through the wood chipper Fargo style to make the one I own more scarce?

Been a couple of threads where that is discussed and theorized with cards and no one seems especially horrified by the suggestion, but if the same practice involves a modern card release there is no shortage of collectors expressing outrage.

Why the disconnect on one but not the other?

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by packs

I will never understand why Topps can't use redemption cards instead of those cut up abominations. Wouldn't the person who pulled the card rather have the complete item? What kind of monster would prefer a card like that?

because these are not memorabilia collectors. they are card collectors only. i agree with your point, but i think this is why

[bn2cardz]

I personally think some signature cut cards look better after being presented in card format. I hate, though, when I can see the cut edges because the design of the card came before the item. If you are going to make a one-of-one then plan it out so that it presents the autograph in the best way, otherwise keep it as is.

In this case it was a player's release and signed by Mathewson as a president of the team. I am sure there are plenty out there and would have not had an issue with it being included as a cut for a card if the presentation made it that much better, but I really just don't think it does in this situation.

[packs]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

because these are not memorabilia collectors. they are card collectors only. i agree with your point, but i think this is why

But the Mathewson market is so specific. If your product contains Mathewson as a chase card, you are pandering to our specific audience, which is one that is obsessed with preservation. Why would someone who only collects Mike Trout cards be interested in Mathewson being a draw to buy a box?

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

There was a box break (or case break if you prefer) at $159 per slot that sold out pretty quickly. It should yield the breaker a cool $5K in profit. I would have thought about taking a slot but with my luck would have ended up with the Jose Batista sketch card.

I responded to a Net54 thread about this in the 'watercooler section' and showed some pics and about LIVE BREAKS.

I know they are doing this on Blowout forums @155.00 or 146.00 by Houdini
Several are planned
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/a...-per-spot.html

If you look on Ebay right now: There 1 for 179.99 and 2 others have it for 550 dollars.
I also seen where folks are selling the briefcase itself.

Break by mystlsportscards $179.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Topps-T...cAAOSw2xRYRKze

Break by Oliversportscards $550.00

WE WILL BE DOING THIS A BIT DIFFERENT THAN OTHER BREAKERS... EACH IS ONE SPOT AND THE FULL SET GOES AS 1 SPOT, THE SKETCH REPRO SET GOES AS 1 SPOT. FOR A TOTAL OF 56 SPOTS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-SPOT-IN-AI...gAAOSwnHZYQ3N6

[mighty bombjack]

A few thoughts:

I think most of you are looking at this from the point of view of net54, that is, vintage collectors, and not the point of view of the modern baseball card hobby. It has changed . A LOT. This is a bout gambling and flipping, not just to make money (because it is mostly losses), but rather as the hobby itself.

To the question about why they offer Mathewson to people who collect Trout: it's because the person who won that card in a case break did so for 179 bucks. There was never any doubt that it would be put up for sale immediately, because that is the modern hobby. They likely hope to sell it to someone here (looks like a long shot) and buy a bunch of trout, as all as copious spots in future case breaks of this ilk. The hobby, like everything else, continues to evolve.

As to cutting up a document and putting it on a baseball card, it should come to no one's surprise here that there are many people out there who like baseball cards and prefer them to anything else. It has been pointed out that, often times, a card with a piece of bat or jersey sells for near the price of an entire GU item, and this is very common with cut autos. I would much rather have the document and am sad that they cut that Matty up, but then the person who now owns it and is hoping to profit mightily (as a milestone part of their hobby) would never had had a shot at doing so.

Seeing all of the cries of "insanity" and "ridiculousness" here make me want to remind everyone that we are on a board that celebrates the spending of tens of thousands (hundreds, even) of dollars on tiny pieces of colored cardboard, something that 99.99 percent of the history of humanity would themselves judge to be "insane," and probably rightfully so. Or not. It's all relative, know what I mean?

Collect what you like is the mantra that cuts throughout the hobby ages.

For full disclosure here, I used to work at Topps.

[packs]

I see your point. I guess the heart of the beast is what is considered a baseball card. The Mathewson card in this case is just a cut out signature. There's not even a photo of him. Again to each their own, but if you collect cards because you like cards, wouldn't you be pretty disappointed in that one?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

If you are going to cut it up why not take the time to make a nice presentation with a photo of the player. Some of these do have photos and some don't.

Photos and, more importantly the rights to use them in a product for profit, cost money. Topps has rigths to some players, but not to others. They may be able to buy those (and should if they are charging this amount), but I've seen it speculated that Mathewson's card image rights are exclusive to Panini (apparently he has had cards made by them in the last few years). Again, I used to work at Topps (as baseball editor, not on contracts).

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

The original sold for $7170 in Heritage last year. We will see what the new value is after this sells.

Actually, that buyer profited nicely, as Topps bought this on ebay a few months ago for $12,500 (link below). I doubt that the card made from it will garner that much, but that is beside the point. The person who won the card paid under $200 to do so, and understanding that is the whole key to understanding the overall phenomenon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...cAAOSwHaBWkvgr

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by packs

I see your point. I guess the heart of the beast is what is considered a baseball card. The Mathewson card in this case is just a cut out signature. There's not even a photo of him. Again to each their own, but if you collect cards because you like cards, wouldn't you be pretty disappointed in that one?

No, because they didn't want it. They wanted its related profit. Nobody bought this product (or, realistically, bought into a case break of the product) with their sights on keeping the major "hits" within. The current hobby is "rip and flip" (which is only very distantly related the same hobby that the people on this board are in, even if they both vaguely involve cardboard).

[mighty bombjack]

Craziest thing of all, to me, is that Topps actually SOLD OUT OF THESE CASES

Next one will cost 75k and have this Mathewson card encased within a larger one.

I'm only half joking. But which half?

[conor912]

I wish card collecting was more popular. There's gotta be a dozen great SNL skit ideas buried in this thread alone.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Craziest thing of all, to me, is that Topps actually SOLD OUT OF THESE CASES

Next one will cost 75k and have this Mathewson card encased within a larger one.

I'm only half joking. But which half?

Wayne, thanks for your perspective. Really interesting. Sounds like it might as well be bitcoins people are bidding for. Just an economic vehicle to maybe luck out and make a score. You are right, this world is far from the realm most of us vintage guys operate in. Thanks.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Photos and, more importantly the rights to use them in a product for profit, cost money. Topps has rigths to some players, but not to others. They may be able to buy those (and should if they are charging this amount), but I've seen it speculated that Mathewson's card image rights are exclusive to Panini (apparently he has had cards made by them in the last few years). Again, I used to work at Topps (as baseball editor, not on contracts).

Actually, that buyer profited nicely, as Topps bought this on ebay a few months ago for $12,500 (link below). I doubt that the card made from it will garner that much, but that is beside the point. The person who won the card paid under $200 to do so, and understanding that is the whole key to understanding the overall phenomenon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...cAAOSwHaBWkvgr

I knew Topps had Mathewson cards, but after your comment I looked and they must have lost the rights after 2011 since that is the last year he was on their cards.

It still doesn't change the idea though. Because this is suppose to be an ultrahigh end product. Why not make sure you were going to have the best design possible. In this case they didn't improve it. Since there is not a photo they could have left it as a full item and just matted it and framed it. It just looks tacky cut and not having the matte frame it very well.

I understand the casebreaks and the ability to get these items at great prices (gambling for memorabilia), but there is a company called Super Break who has figured out how to give out the entire memorabilia piece. Why can't Topps figure out how to do that with these cut signatures? It isn't like a bat where they can fill multiple products these are a single signature pieces repackaged to a single card that SOMETIMES (as is the case with the Mathewson) looks worse.

Again I have no problems repackaging a cut auto, but it shouldn't look rushed and lazy.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Again I have no problems repackaging a cut auto, but it shouldn't look rushed and lazy.

This is one point that I simply cannot argue with. You are totally correct. I can tell you what I believe would be the Topps company line here:

"The Transcendent Collection Cut Autograph Box Toppers are a set, and consistency and uniformity is important for sets and to set collectors. The autographs we purchased had to fit within the set design, not the other way around, and Mathewson autographs are far too rare for us to select one that fits."

There is a lot wrong with that statement and I'm not going to defend it, but that it what they would say if you asked them.

[Snapolit1]

Wayne,
As someone with some industry knowledge, can you comment generally on the plethora of cards in the 80s and beyond where they started cutting up bats, jersey, pants, etc. As someone who would never in 100 years buy a card with two threads in it, I'm just curious how all these cards worked out for the card companies. Did they make a killing on this phenomena for a long time, did it burn out very quickly, was it a perpetual cash cow? So many many of these cards on eBay I just can't fathom there were millions lined up to get a card with a barely perceptible piece of wood, but maybe I'm badly mistaken. Just curious.

[bigtrain]

Inspired by the new Topps Transcendent product, I am thinking to producing my own new product called "Transcendental". I would sell them for approximately $50,000 per box. Each box would contain priceless cards but only in the non-physical, spiritual sense. The cards pulled from the box would be whatever the buyer imagines them to be.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

Before:


After:

Insanity reigns supreme.
This is repulsive.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Insanity reigns supreme.
This is repulsive.

Richard, I agree with you. But it certainly is the opinion of someone (myself) who does not like the new and shiny when it comes to cards
But to Wayne's point, I can not fully understand the case break phenomenon. My kids got into a few free kid breaks at the national 2 years ago and they got some ok cards, but nothing that would have been anywhere worth it had it not been free. That being said, if you spend any time at all on other forums such as blowout cards, this is all the rage and flipping is everything. Really the only way to keep this price point doable

[swarmee]

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/11709579-post72.html
Additional cut autos Topps has screwed up. But if you read the rest of the thread, even the modern card collectors this this is a #toppsfail.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Couldn't agree more. For anyone interested in seeing this hideous creation...

Before:


After:

WTF?

I mean WTFF??

Criminal

[Jay Wolt]

Damn! Now Ernest Padgett is lost forever

[steve B]

Ok, uniformity within a set is understandable, but they could have retained uniformity by using a smaller window size that showed off the autograph better and retained the diamond motif. Heck, I could do that and I'm not a graphic designer. That they have actual graphic designers who fail that badly is pretty amazing.

I give my daughter the card pack inserts, and she's made me some pretty cool 1/1 sketch cards starting when she was about 18 months. I's almost bet she could do better, and she's only 6.

Steve Birmingham
Whole name, since I'm totally dissing the Topps design staff. Can I use "yeah ya had that one coming" as a defense?

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

This is one point that I simply cannot argue with. You are totally correct. I can tell you what I believe would be the Topps company line here:

"The Transcendent Collection Cut Autograph Box Toppers are a set, and consistency and uniformity is important for sets and to set collectors. The autographs we purchased had to fit within the set design, not the other way around, and Mathewson autographs are far too rare for us to select one that fits."

There is a lot wrong with that statement and I'm not going to defend it, but that it what they would say if you asked them.

[Kenny Cole]

I guess all I will say is that I am not in and will never be. The very fact that this could occur says volumes, and none of it is good IMO. Really an awful offering. Evidently, history doesn't mean much anymore. Too sad.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Inspired by the new Topps Transcendent product, I am thinking to producing my own new product called "Transcendental". I would sell them for approximately $50,000 per box. Each box would contain priceless cards but only in the non-physical, spiritual sense. The cards pulled from the box would be whatever the buyer imagines them to be.

clever

[packs]

I wish they would do a set that focused on the historical collector. They seem to have a penchant for wanting to be historical and connect with the past, but they're tied to the card beasts and make terrible looking inserts rather than give away the whole item. I'd pay a pretty good premium to buy a product that came with redemption cards for significant items rather than a patch of something.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

There was a box break (or case break if you prefer) at $159 per slot that sold out pretty quickly. It should yield the breaker a cool $5K in profit. I would have thought about taking a slot but with my luck would have ended up with the Jose Batista sketch card.

I jumped in on one on ebay last night for $180, I think. It was the result of irrational exuberance from the stock market's latest run, I think (aside from the post-Fed announcement yesterday). I was pretty excited at the chance of winning a unique card, but as I read the fine print I saw they were also giving away the box and an "invitation to a Topps event" as part of the break. SInce my luck is generally rotten, I imagine I'll end up with the box or the John Smoltz base card. If anyone cares, I'll let you know how I make out.

[BobC]

I work with a colleague who along with another friend of mine, are Breakers. He mentioned being offered two cases of this product from their distributor but, passed on it as they weren't sure the price would be worth it. He said he's now sorry they didn't take the two offered to them.

Apparently my friend heard that Mathewson cut signature card has already been flipped for something like $16K. He said he also heard that someone went ahead and sold a complete base card set of the Transcendant cards for about $7,500 itself, and that the base cards alone were going for upwards of $100-$125 a piece.

He's now saying they could have easily made about $6K per case and sold them both out in one evening. The hobby isn't dead or dying, just morphed into the use of Breakers to sell/distribute new products anymore, with manufactured rarities being the main draw. Apparently Topps did very well with this new release so, expect to see them try to do more high-priced releases like it in the future, and for Panini to follow. With this kind of money involved, it is sad to think that even more vintage memorabilia and documents will be sought to cut up and include on cards for future distribution. Topps and Panini are in business to make money, not preserve history. Sad to say.

BobC

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by BobC

I work with a colleague who along with another friend of mine, are Breakers. He mentioned being offered two cases of this product from their distributor but, passed on it as they weren't sure the price would be worth it. He said he's now sorry they didn't take the two offered to them.

Apparently my friend heard that Mathewson cut signature card has already been flipped for something like $16K. He said he also heard that someone went ahead and sold a complete base card set of the Transcendant cards for about $7,500 itself, and that the base cards alone were going for upwards of $100-$125 a piece.

He's now saying they could have easily made about $6K per case and sold them both out in one evening. The hobby isn't dead or dying, just morphed into the use of Breakers to sell/distribute new products anymore, with manufactured rarities being the main draw. Apparently Topps did very well with this new release so, expect to see them try to do more high-priced releases like it in the future, and for Panini to follow. With this kind of money involved, it is sad to think that even more vintage memorabilia and documents will be sought to cut up and include on cards for future distribution. Topps and Panini are in business to make money, not preserve history. Sad to say.

BobC

Mathewson cut signature is up on ebay now for $20K.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...kAAOSwImRYT~zp

[tschock]

Originally Posted by swarmee

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/11709579-post72.html
Additional cut autos Topps has screwed up. But if you read the rest of the thread, even the modern card collectors this this is a #toppsfail.

Yowzers! I can think of a few single words that could describe the level of effort that went into these examples in the link.... Whoreable and Whorendous.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Mathewson cut signature is up on ebay now for $20K.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...kAAOSwImRYT~zp

Yes, and music will end very quickly, and someone will be left holding the bag and won't be able to make any money off it all all. Maybe one possibly two flips and then game over.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yes, and music will end very quickly, and someone will be left holding the bag and won't be able to make any money off it all all. Maybe one possibly two flips and then game over.

This is the essence of the question I always ask myself about these manufactured rarities. Who is it that actually ends up paying big bucks for items like this and truly collects it. I can understand people grabbing it and then looking to flip it for a quick buck but, who actually ends up collecting it then? I don't know of anyone who admits they really like and collect this new, manufactured stuff.

BobC

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Inspired by the new Topps Transcendent product, I am thinking to producing my own new product called "Transcendental". I would sell them for approximately $50,000 per box. Each box would contain priceless cards but only in the non-physical, spiritual sense. The cards pulled from the box would be whatever the buyer imagines them to be.

Plus very, very low cost!!!

Best wishes,

Larry

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BobC

This is the essence of the question I always ask myself about these manufactured rarities. Who is it that actually ends up paying big bucks for items like this and truly collects it. I can understand people grabbing it and then looking to flip it for a quick buck but, who actually ends up collecting it then? I don't know of anyone who admits they really like and collect this new, manufactured stuff.

BobC

No one really wants it . . .they want it for a week or two to make money. But nothing grows to the sky forever.