63 Rose PSA 7

[Peter_Spaeth]

This was a 2K card or less twelve days ago. One is at 5900 on ebay and still open for bidding, days to go in fact. Damn that stiff competition for nice cards. Carry on.

[ALR-bishop]

There has been a discussion of Rose 63 card pricing on CU. I wondered in it what if anything is happening to the price of his 64 Topps Rookie Banquet "card". Bob offered that a PSA 10 would go for $ 3.12 while Larkin suggested it might bring $ 12 to15 K. The answer likely lies somewhere between those two figures.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The buying gang isn't into obscure issues, as far as I can tell.

[Dpeck100]

I have been reading your posts on the various boards here about this "buying gang". When looking at the Rose I see 12 unique bidders above $2,000.

While I realize that the prices of cards can be manipulated to some degree for certain it seems highly unlikely that a pack of 12 buyers in this case would collude to drive an item higher.

What seems very likely to me is that some fresh investors have moved into the market for cards and are wanting to get some money put to work and aren't as familiar with the history of card prices and perhaps don't care.

As the prices go higher with hard assets such as cards the demand actually increases which is obviously contrary to your typical supply and demand equation as humans like things of value and get turned on more by the higher prices. Essentially they come attached with more bragging rights.

I don't profess to know what is going on but it is entirely possible for markets to change. If you take a stock. You can see a security try and break out for months and years to no avail. Once the breakout occurs it can find itself rising rapidly and bringing in new participants. I don't think that can be entirely ruled out with cards in general.

Someone pointed out that there are 400 PSA 8 Pete Rose rookies. I would be very curious to know how many were in the pop report two years ago, five years ago etc. It isn't like this stuff is growing on trees and very few packs from this era still exist let alone get busted.

This speculative run up could easily end badly but what is more likely is many of these cards find a much higher plateau. The amount of skepticism that exists is actually quite healthy if one is bullish on HOF related trading cards.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was a 2K card or less twelve days ago. One is at 5900 on ebay and still open for bidding, days to go in fact. Damn that stiff competition for nice cards. Carry on.

Is it your opinion that all of these off the chart sales over the past few months on these key RCs from the 50s-60s are indeed legit sales OR are these sales results nothing more than clever attempts to manipulate the market price for these cards?

In other words, do you know of any legit buyers or sellers of these high end cards at these recently inflated prices.

[Republicaninmass]

The card is hideous, but tough to find in high grade. What has changed in the past few months to warrant a price increase?

[Stonepony]

I think people have realized you have to pony up if you want the card. My recent PSA 6 53T Mantle smashed thru it's prior ceiling. I'm not part of any conspiracy and actually paid far less than my max bid/ snipe. Attention is now on iconic post war cards and you have to spend big to play. It's here to stay.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I have been reading your posts on the various boards here about this "buying gang". When looking at the Rose I see 12 unique bidders above $2,000.

While I realize that the prices of cards can be manipulated to some degree for certain it seems highly unlikely that a pack of 12 buyers in this case would collude to drive an item higher.

In regards to 12 different bidders above $2k, while a handful (on the lower end) of the bidders may indeed be legit, however, it would not be surprising if there is indeed a price manipulation in effect and that many of the 12 bidders may be from one source.

As a buyer on ebay, I used to rarely, if ever, come close to exceeding the $500 reward. Then ebay started offering the promos where they offer 8-10x the rewards. Now I seem to always exceed the $500 ebay buck reward on my account. While it may be against eBay's rules, I started using my wife's account and with the help of the 10x ebay bucks promos, my normal buying now began to max out 2 accounts. I started a 3rd account and through 2 months of this rewards cycle, I have maxed out two and just started on my third account.


So, it would not be surprising if the price manipulators also operated from multiple to numerous accounts as many average ebay users do in an attempt to maximize their rewards. It is REALLY easy to open a new account, especially when you are only buying. Obviously if there was more transparency in regards to knowing who the bidders are and if they are legit would remedy this type of price manipulation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The card is hideous, but tough to find in high grade. What has changed in the past few months to warrant a price increase?

What has changed in TEN DAYS to warrant it doubling? Or more than doubling?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Is it your opinion that all of these off the chart sales over the past few months on these key RCs from the 50s-60s are indeed legit sales OR are these sales results nothing more than clever attempts to manipulate the market price for these cards?

In other words, do you know of any legit buyers or sellers of these high end cards at these recently inflated prices.

I suspect some legit people get caught up in the manipulation, as they always do in pump and dump schemes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I have been reading your posts on the various boards here about this "buying gang". When looking at the Rose I see 12 unique bidders above $2,000.

While I realize that the prices of cards can be manipulated to some degree for certain it seems highly unlikely that a pack of 12 buyers in this case would collude to drive an item higher.

What seems very likely to me is that some fresh investors have moved into the market for cards and are wanting to get some money put to work and aren't as familiar with the history of card prices and perhaps don't care.

As the prices go higher with hard assets such as cards the demand actually increases which is obviously contrary to your typical supply and demand equation as humans like things of value and get turned on more by the higher prices. Essentially they come attached with more bragging rights.

I don't profess to know what is going on but it is entirely possible for markets to change. If you take a stock. You can see a security try and break out for months and years to no avail. Once the breakout occurs it can find itself rising rapidly and bringing in new participants. I don't think that can be entirely ruled out with cards in general.

Someone pointed out that there are 400 PSA 8 Pete Rose rookies. I would be very curious to know how many were in the pop report two years ago, five years ago etc. It isn't like this stuff is growing on trees and very few packs from this era still exist let alone get busted.

This speculative run up could easily end badly but what is more likely is many of these cards find a much higher plateau. The amount of skepticism that exists is actually quite healthy if one is bullish on HOF related trading cards.

Stocks that are not being manipulated run up because something positive happens, in my experience. Increased demand does not account for a plentiful card doubling or tripling in ten freaking days. But whatever, maybe it does. And now, back to your regular programming.

[ALR-bishop]

Dave--- are little horses a part of your world or did you tour with Linda Ronstadt

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suspect some legit people get caught up in the manipulation, as they always do in pump and dump schemes.

Could you give some examples of iconic cards which were similarly bought up at extraordinary prices and then dumped causing a price collapse ?
I'm not suggesting it's not happened, I'm just interested in some examples at the prices we're currently talking about( I'm not interested in $100 cards that are now $2)

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Dave--- are little horses a part of your world or did you tour with Linda Ronstadt

I dated her before Govenor Brown. I was 13

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Could you give some examples of iconic cards which were similarly bought up at extraordinary prices and then dumped causing a price collapse ?
I'm not suggesting it's not happened, I'm just interested in some examples at the prices we're currently talking about( I'm not interested in $100 cards that are now $2)

It hasn't happened yet because these mega moves (doubling in days) tripling in weeks) within a generally rising market (which I think is legit) are a fairly new thing. But just my opinion. If you want to spend 6k on a plentiful card that was available two weeks ago for 2k, go for it.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It hasn't happened yet because these mega moves (doubling in days) tripling in weeks) within a generally rising market (which I think is legit) are a fairly new thing. But just my opinion. If you want to spend 6k on a plentiful card that was available two weeks ago for 2k, go for it.

It would be interesting to list a few such cards in a thread " time capsule" which could be visited in 2-3 years to see how they're holding up

[Republicaninmass]

The kid certainly pumped up prices on the 1952 Bartirome, there aren't any for sale, and people who need them are bidding them up to try and just have a copy before they are "gone". The question is, is he going to sell at the top, or is Tony is "father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate" or what have you?

[stlcardsfan]

Lot of speculation about other hobby run up as well here:

http://boards.collectors-society.com...369196&fpart=1

Guess people think the economy is healthy again and that is when bubbles are created. I think that is what we are seeing here.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The kid certainly pumped up prices on the 1952 Bartirome, there aren't any for sale, and people who need them are bidding them up to try and just have a copy before they are "gone". The question is, is he going to sell at the top, or is Tony is "father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate" or what have you?

I noticed that as well. When you see them, even ungraded copies, they are up there!

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Lot of speculation about other hobby run up as well here:

http://boards.collectors-society.com...369196&fpart=1

Guess people think the economy is healthy again and that is when bubbles are created. I think that is what we are seeing here.

Just read a bit of that and had no idea other hobbies/collectibles were following, (or we're following them?), card collecting.

[ALR-bishop]

Ted-- LOG has a signed one in current auction. Wonder if the hoarder will want it

[irv]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

The kid certainly pumped up prices on the 1952 Bartirome, there aren't any for sale, and people who need them are bidding them up to try and just have a copy before they are "gone". The question is, is he going to sell at the top, or is Tony is "father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate" or what have you?

Only one I could find, and it's Dean's cards.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-3...192?rmvSB=true

[begsu1013]

we live in a very different world than we did a few moments ago...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Note the overlap in top bidders with the PSA 7 now at 4K and counting on ebay.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Note the overlap in top bidders with the PSA 7 now at 4K and counting on ebay.

If those are the same bidders running un the Ryan, Clemente, and Koufax rookies then you may be on to something.

[begsu1013]

ugly 7 and fairly new accounts.

can see where you are going on this one...

[1952boyntoncollector]

i dont know about you but if i was iffy on payng $3000 on a card that sold for $4000 for example..then all of the sudden its $15000....i may be kicking myself but i would have ZERO incentive to now want that card...it would go into the 'that boat has sailed' category..

[Jdoggs]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i dont know about you but if i was iffy on payng $3000 on a card that sold for $4000 for example..then all of the sudden its $15000....i may be kicking myself but i would have ZERO incentive to now want that card...it would go into the 'that boat has sailed' category..

Agree with you.

[begsu1013]

sounds like you two are more worried about the flip vs. actually collecting.

[begsu1013]

oops.

[ashes13]

15, count em, 15 Rose Rookies in PSA 7 or 8, now listed on Ebay. Be interesting to see if the prices can be sustained. Quite a few cards now listed recently.

[begsu1013]

have a feeling the centered ones will.

(and not talking rose exclusively)

good lil test going to see...

[Dpeck100]

19 bidders on the PSA 7 Rose with more than 2 days to go. Not sure if the 6k threshold will be surpassed but there is serious momentum when there are this many bidders on a card at this point in an auction.

There are also 73 watchers which is a strong number. Obviously some of those are just bystanders like me but a good indication of strong interest.

Good luck with your card.

[Neal]

As an owner of a Rose RC, I am certainly interested (and somewhat kinda/sorta shocked) at some recent prices.

I have always thought, however, that Pete's rookie was undervalued.

[midwaylandscaping]

I sense that "paying record prices" will continue with this card

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Neal

As an owner of a Rose RC, I am certainly interested (and somewhat kinda/sorta shocked) at some recent prices.

I have always thought, however, that Pete's rookie was undervalued.

Sell it and buy a bunch of the prewar you like.

[Peter_Spaeth]

6200 on May 30 (the topic of this thread), very well centered 7 last night for 3600, both Probstein. Reasonably centered one 2700 the night before. People were saying?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

6200 on May 30 (the topic of this thread), very well centered 7 last night for 3600, both Probstein. Reasonably centered one 2700 the night before. People were saying?

That is too much swing for my investing stomach. I am liking the $100 centered HOF rookies more and more.....Only thing is, I am the only one!! It seems the money is pouring in at the top and I am not a top player .

[Taxman]

If you want to know who is manipulating the market go back 3 weeks when the first PSA 8 went for 16k and note the winner. Then pull up all the PSA 7 that sold within that week. You will have your answer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Taxman

If you want to know who is manipulating the market go back 3 weeks when the first PSA 8 went for 16k and note the winner. Then pull up all the PSA 7 that sold within that week. You will have your answer.

Same bidder is high on the current 8 being auctioned by manontherock.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Taxman

If you want to know who is manipulating the market go back 3 weeks when the first PSA 8 went for 16k and note the winner. Then pull up all the PSA 7 that sold within that week. You will have your answer.

Reminds me of the time when high grade Three Stooges card were on fire, as well as the Titus T206 craze. Both of those were fueled by one collector. One man can usually not sustain a market. I guess time will tell.

[1952boyntoncollector]

it appears for all the cards that matter. VCP doesnt mean anything.

when i sold the green cobbs, i still found it funny that VCP was being quoted..or better yet..SMR...lol

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

it appears for all the cards that matter. VCP doesnt mean anything.

when i sold the green cobbs, i still found it funny that VCP was being quoted..or better yet..SMR...lol

The best cards keep going up for now, no doubt. And the best cards in certain grades are bringing a lot more than other inferior for the grade examples.
As I keep telling everyone, the day I am reselling cards at guide prices is the day I have made a mistake. I don't want average, ordinary or below average cards to play with. If I were building sets it might be different.....so I understand that aspect too. (more and more) This just came in but is not for sale right now.

[JeremyW]

I'm interested in buying a Rose rookie & have the funds to do it, but I'm not going to pay the current "market price." If I missed the boat, I can live with that. To me, a near mint example is not worth $3-4K+. That's just my opinion.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I'm interested in buying a Rose rookie & have the funds to do it, but I'm not going to pay the current "market price." If I missed the boat, I can live with that. To me, a near mint example is not worth $3-4K+. That's just my opinion.

I've missed many a boat , what's one more

[Dpeck100]

The Pete Rose rookie card price debate just got even more interesting. A PSA 9 was listed and it is at $105,100 in just a few hours. Only two bidders but it only takes two.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Generous grade.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The Pete Rose rookie card price debate just got even more interesting. A PSA 9 was listed and it is at $105,100 in just a few hours. Only two bidders but it only takes two.

Link? Just checked E-bay, and although I seen 8-10, I didn't see this one?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Now at 121. The last reported 9s. No comment.

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $34,999.00

5/7/16 eBay Listing | Image 07benchwarmers 9***8 BIN $28,900.00
4/23/16 eBay Listing | Image jba-auctions 1***n Best Offer $35,000.00
2/18/16 eBay Listing | Image 71c10 r***a BIN $34,999.00
2/17/16 eBay Listing | Image 71c10 7***r BIN $34,999.00
2/2/15 eBay Image manontherock 3***1 BIN $25,000.00

[begsu1013]

that's a good avg figure considering it was over 4 months ago! ; )

edit: and glad someone randomly posted that sale that occurred twice for some very odd reason! utummm.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just a cut and paste from VCP. Good luck if you are bidding.