What are some of the more difficult sets from the 70's?

[goudey1933]

3D,wiffleball,test sets...anything goes.
Scott

[Bcwcardz]

I
Finding high quality 71s. It is a mainstream set but tough to get nice ungraded copies.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

[flkersn]

71 Kellogg's with all its variations.

[savedfrommyspokes]

71 OPC, Semi and Hi #s specifically. 74 OPC is scarce too.

[ALR-bishop]

Topps 70 Cloth
Topps 71 Rookie Artists Proofs
Topps 1971 Winners
Topps 1971 Greatest Moments
Topps 1972 Candy Lids
Topps 1973 Comics
Topps 1973 Pin Ups
Topps 1974 Puzzles
Topps 1974 Deckle
Topps 1978 Zest Soap...only kidding
Topps 1980 TestCoins

[Harliduck]

As just a base Topps set collector, 71 and 72 were tough due to just the sheer volume. Both are near 800 cards each and those semi highs and highs in ex or better add up. I almost have a VG set of 71's with all the upgrades I've had to do after all the lots I bought and dug through.



Al...that list looks daunting. I'll leave those sets to the experts...

[tedzan]

You can add to this list this seldom seen 1973 TOPPS reprint set (8 cards) from their 1953 set.





This set includes......

Jackie Robinson
Satchell Paige
CarlFurillo
Al Rosen
Hal Newhouser
Clyde McCullough
Peanuts Lowrey
Johnny Mize



TED Z
.

[ALR-bishop]

Good one Ted. Eight card set in which three of the players are incorrect ( Furillo/ Rosen/ McCullough). What was it's origin and purpose ?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Good one Ted. Eight card set in which three of the players are incorrect ( Furillo/ Rosen/ McCullough). What was it's origin and purpose ?

Isn't this the set that was prepared for some sort of Topps function?

[ALR-bishop]

Dave Hornish, my go to Topps man, has surfaced that theory, maybe for one of the Topps annual banquets. I have the programs for 59 to 66 , then nothing further until 1978. Yet based on the later numbered programs it appears there were banquets held throughout the 70s. I think it is still a bit of a mystery. If done for a formal event how the heck did Topps mess up three of the 8 cards ?

[bobsbbcards]

1970 OPC (easy to find one or two, try and complete the darn thing)
1970 Topps Candy Lids
1970 Topps Cloth Stickers
1971 Bazooka Numbered
1971 OPC (see above)
1971 Topps Greatest Moments
1971 Topps Winners
1972 Topps Candy Lids
1973 Laughlin Super Stand-Ups
1973 Topps Comics
1973 Topps Pin-Ups
1974 OPC (ibid)
1975 MSA Test Discs
1976 Red Barn Discs
1977 MSA Cup Lids
1977 Saga Discs
1978 Penn Emblem Patches
1978-9 Wiffle Discs

[ALR-bishop]

Bob-- does ibid refer to "see above" or the Illinois On Line Auction site

[ALR-bishop]

Fleer did not stop issuing baseball sets in 1963. They had continuous offerings annually up unto their 1981 set. Some are listed in the SCD Standard Catalog but many are not, probably because many involve team logos and decals rather than players ( but not all).. Looking at only the 70s these sets are very tough to complete

1969 to 1972 Quiz cards--5 different sets
1971 World Series Extension cards
1969 to 1976 Cloth---like the Quiz cards issued over many years with
differences each year
1972-73 Team Decals - tougher than the 60-62s, 2 sets, square and rectangular
1975--Large Iron on Logos

1977-79 Grand Slam Stickers---issued over 3 years with differences and
variations as well

Anyone who wants to see how expansive and complicated the Fleer offerings in the 60s and 70s are can take a look at this great site , whose creator has been begun posting here some

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...RemHJGPGt8rWQ-

[David W]

Originally Posted by flkersn

71 Kellogg's with all its variations.

This would indeed be tough. From my experience putting the Lou Brock collection together, here would be some tough but I suppose doable 70's sets

70 Dayton Daily news with variations - tough

MSA Customized, MSA Red Barn (both variations), MSA Cup lids - tough

78 Sportcaster with all the printing variations and all the obscure sports - tough

[steve B]

The Garvey tips that came on raisin bran aren't exactly easy. Not sure they'd be on the list as the toughest.
http://postcerealbaseballcardmuseum....rvey-tips.html

The 1979 Red Sox set that was sold outside the park is pretty tough too. I don't know if the standard catalog ever ended up listing the "high numbers" A few cards added on to the set with the late season call ups. Sold as sets in a paper wrapper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mike-Torrez-...AAAOxyThVTYuZL

76 Hostess yellow and green. Different colors, some reversed negatives, numbers over 150, some screened entirely differently...altogether weird. I found one batch when I was in highschool, and none since. Swapped about half of them for the card I'd traded for the whole bunch a 74 McCovey Washington. DOH!


And cheating a bit.......1978 Bazooka. I really need to scan that. Not officially an issued card, but they reused some cardstock with 78 Topps backs printed on it to make some bazooka boxes. I know of 2, maybe someone else saved one?

Steve B

[KCRfan1]

Sticking with " regular " issues, the 71 Topps is expensive, but not difficult, due to the black borders. The 72 set is difficult due to centering issues 9 if that's a criteria for you ), and the 77 set is difficult due to thinner card stock, some centering issues, and the cards are prone to chipping.

The test sets mentioned previously are darn near impossible to find at times, and when found are very expensive. So set completion for those items likely require some deep pockets. Unless they were purchased " back in the day ".

[moeson]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Dave Hornish, my go to Topps man, has surfaced that theory, maybe for one of the Topps annual banquets. I have the programs for 59 to 66 , then nothing further until 1978. Yet based on the later numbered programs it appears there were banquets held throughout the 70s. I think it is still a bit of a mystery. If done for a formal event how the heck did Topps mess up three of the 8 cards ?

I finally got around to digging out The Trader Speaks issue related to this test set. I attended the NY show where Bill Haber had these test cards, along with some 69 Super and 70 Candy Lid singles, spread out on a small table. Alas, I passed on the set.

[ALR-bishop]

Howie -- great info. The explanation is a bit bizarre

[JTysver]

1977 Hostess Twinkies with black bars- the last 15 cards are hard to find
1972 Topps Cloth
1976 Topps Cloth

[BearBailey]

Regular sets its 1971 & 1972 topps.
Insert 1971 greatest moments & 1974 deckle.

[mrmopar]

1976 Jerry Jonas Productions

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

71 OPC, Semi and Hi #s specifically. 74 OPC is scarce too.

Agree. Also '71 is such a condition sensitive set....trying to collect this in any form of VG+ is difficult.

Z

[toppcat]

For Topps you have to differentiate between the sets that never made it out to retail and those that did. Two different animals to my mind. 71 Greatest Moments would be a retail set while the 71 Rookie All Stars are actually one of a kind pieces made for a special event. Something like the 1980 coins would be in house mock ups or proofs with only a small handful of each produced. The RAS and Coins were never meant for public consumption. As for the 53 Reprints, DIschley may or may not have suspect info but they were clearly produced in quantities around that of a test issue. I still think a luncheon or testimonial dinner would cover them and like to think maybe they were made for Woody Gelman's retirement dinner (j/k)......he may have crayoned this player notation on the back of my Furillo though, as it's close to his style of handwriting (neater than normal). No clue where the pencilled Pee Wee came from (click the link to see): http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/search/label/1972%20%2753%20Topps%20Reprint


I've seen the other errors with a crayoned back as well but don't have scans.

[ALR-bishop]

Although I have a wrapper and have seen a box, do you think these were really retailed in packs, or just sold by the Card Collector's Company or others from produced but not distributed inventory ?

[toppcat]

Here's the Trader Speaks for October 1971 with relevant content on Greatest Moments, followed at the bottom by a single page from the June 1973 issue with the first CCC ad I could find that mentions the set. There's some bonus content on 1971 Topps regular series distribution and a few other goodies but the east coast vs west coast theory of how these sets came to the hobby is interesting to me as is the "no short prints" dealers. It would be a little of both to my mind-test a set you think would do well and when it doesn't sell, dump it through CCC Haber and the like.

The "53 Reprint", which is really a Goudey homage using artwork already issued in '53, is still the subject of scrutiny and there are various ways it could have been handed out initially but it follows the same rough trajectory as Greatest Moments. At 8 cards, it's likely too small a set to have been a retail test but a lab or field (schoolyard) test is possible to me. Most if not all Topps sets, regular or otherwise, could also have seen at least partial distribution in Fun Packs or similar repackages as the used different avenues to shed overstock. And in the June 1973 ad, were those the Boxed Batter Up sets of 1968 Game Cards?

[ALR-bishop]

Great info as usual Dave. It says it was issued in Brooklyn in July and by October the Card Collector was selling it as a set. Do you think it was really sold at retail or just sold out of the warehouse ?

[glenv]

The above Trader Speaks talks about the Sunnydale Farms sport plaques. Don't recall ever seeing one of those. Does anyone have a scan of one they can share?

[moeson]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Great info as usual Dave. It says it was issued in Brooklyn in July and by October the Card Collector was selling it as a set. Do you think it was really sold at retail or just sold out of the warehouse ?

Al, that ad is from October 1973.

[ALR-bishop]

Howie---we have two mysteries going at once. I was referring to Dave's last postc on the 71 GM set

[moeson]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Howie---we have two mysteries going at once. I was referring to Dave's last posy on the 71 GM set

I know and it's a bit confusing but re-read his post where he says the first ad mentioning the 71 GM set was from 73 (June, not October like you and I wrote).

[toppcat]

First three pages are from October 1971 and the last from June 1973. Al has it right.

[moeson]

Originally Posted by toppcat

First three pages are from October 1971 and the last from June 1973. Al has it right.

Not trying to make a big deal out of this. I was addressing that the set was tested in Brooklyn during July 1971 and it made the sale ad in June of 1973 not by October 1971 per Al. The reselling did not occur that fast.

[ALR-bishop]

I get what you are saying Howie, not a few month but a couple of years before the GM offer by CCC.


The lack of wrappers for both sets make me think whatever distribution occurred for both was not via retail packs.

Maybe more info will turn up, it's only been 45 years or so

[DaClyde]

Not cards, but I'm going to throw the 1978 Sports Photo Association pins/buttons in here. I'm very curious if all of the buttons were actually issued in line with the numbering on the fronts. A lot of the pins are easy to find, but there are a ton that never seem to see the light of day, which is why I'm wondering if all the numbers 1-360+ were actually issued, or if the set is skip-numbered.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I get what you are saying Howie, not a few month but a couple of years before the GM offer by CCC.


The lack of wrappers for both sets make me think whatever distribution occurred for both was not via retail packs.

Maybe more info will turn up, it's only been 45 years or so

I think its a combination. Test issue fizzle, Fun Packs reissue, rest of inventory to CCC. They may have had other ads elsewhere with them that appeared earlier or their catalogs had listsings prior to mid 1973; they actually didn't advertise that much in TTS over the years and certainly were not in all issues.

Now the fact only the XP's were being sold by some "East Coast" dealers is interesting. Did the SP's get held back for eventual CCC full sets? I'm sure there's a great story about the way CCC became semi-integrated with Topps as ta third party reseller. I tried to get at the story and was working to get a call with Richard Gelman when I was entertaining the idea of doing a bio of Woody but it never happened and I'm not sure I have the time to really pursue it right now. Topps had all sorts of small revenue streams for sets that had been returned or didn't sell well.

CCC really started ramping up after they published a price guide in 1960 but had been selling Topps excess inventory for years prior, first as Sam Rosen (Woody Gelman's stepfather) and then Woody from 1959 forward after Rosen's death. Counting backwards from the catalog edition numbers puts the founding of Rosen/CCC in 1954. Rosen originally sold cards out of a building on 34th St in Manhattan (still standing) before CCC moved to Franklin Square on Long Island, which was the next town over from Woody, who lived in Malverne (and sometimes car pooled to work with Sy Berger, who lived a couple of towns east).

The Oct 15th pub date for that TTS means info was current through mid September. So dealers had the GM short sets before the end of the baseball season.

[steve B]

For what it's worth, when I got into cards in the late 70's I hung out at the local card shop and since I was interested they taught me stuff sometimes.

One day they showed me a test wrapper, maybe 74 deckle? And told me if I ever saw cards wrapped with that sort of wrapper to just buy them all, or as many as I had the money for.

They also said that people and dealers doing that was making Topps do fewer test issues since they couldn't get a reliable test.

I never did see any, but did occasionally find the odd item like thirst break gum. One pack, in a store that was part of the woolworths chain. Nasty stuff.

Steve B

[toppcat]

I think the real testing ended around 1974 along with the killing off of most ancillary baseball sets. It seems like once they did the 75 mini's the only items that seem like true retail tests are actually in house proofs and mockups. 1966-74 seems to be the test era; I even suspect the Dice Game cards may have been done in the early part of this time frame.

[steve B]

That makes sense.

It also makes some of the late 70's early 80's stuff stranger if they weren't some sort of test. Maybe they decided to test using a more finished looking package so it didn't look like a test.

I'm thinking of the stuff that was somewhat limited geographically. Like the 79 Comics, Some formats of the 81 5x7s, Thirstbreak gum, and a few others like that.

Steve B

[ALR-bishop]

Had been meaning to circle back to Steve's comments about the advice he got to save cards with funny wrappers and his less than enthusiastic comment about Topps Thirst Break Gum

The Thirst Break gum had a wrapper that depicted a sport figure. There were 54 or so subjects and baseball was just a subset. Usually on such sets, like Hocus Focus and Who Am I, I just collected the baseball subset. On the Thirst Break set I did them all for some reason. I bought most as singles or in lots on ebay , but could not find them all. So I bought an unopened box ( sometime around 2005). The gum was issued in 1981. I think it was orange then. It is a gooey brown mess now. I found the ones I needed but it took a long time to clean the wrappers of the gum without damaging the comic. I have some gum left if someone wants a taste

Also, here are some of the funny wrappers

[steve B]

I'm always amazed at the stuff ALR shows. And considering I started collecting when hardly anyone cared about the test sets......I think my greatest moments card cost maybe $2. I should have bought more of that stuff and less of the normal cards.

Yes, the Thirst break gum was orange. And for sure in the top 4-5 worst bits of junk food I've ever had. Very similar to "Gator Gum" which was Gatorade flavored. Only worse. Pretty much a tie with chocolate fudge gum I forget the name of.

Steve B