Beckett vs SGC for value in post war....

[Leon]

Hey Guys
A question or two ...... We know PSA has the registry and high end cards that go with it tied up, especially the post war and later cards. Those cards usually bring more money in a PSA holder because of the almighty number on the flip. However, right below the registry high end stuff do ya'll think post war cards sell for more in SGC or BVG/BGS? Personally, I am being agnostic in my approach to this issue when acquiring cards....I even have a BCCG or two .....I also like raw cards in this space. Coffee talk....

Lastly, will you acquire the highest end cards in holders besides PSA knowing they might be worth less?

[KingFisk]

I think SGC has an edge over BVG in the second tier. A lot of people won't even buy BVG, I think because of the taint stemming from their grading of sheet cut cards and certain allowances they make based on the age of the card (or the technology at the time, or whatever it is). Personally I sometimes buy SGC and deals can be had, especially if they eventually cross to PSA.

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[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Guys
A question or two ...... We know PSA has the registry and high end cards that go with it tied up, especially the post war and later cards. Those cards usually bring more money in a PSA holder because of the almighty number on the flip. However, right below the registry high end stuff do ya'll think post war cards sell for more in SGC or BVG/BGS? Personally, I am being agnostic in my approach to this issue when acquiring cards....I even have a BCCG or two .....I also like raw cards in this space. Coffee talk....

Lastly, will you acquire the highest end cards in holders besides PSA knowing they might be worth less?

I not sure what you mean 'worth less'. If its the same price for a PSA and a BVG, yeah that could happen. But i am assuming you are paying less for the BVG card of the same grade, so it would be worth the same as what you paid at that time. I sold a SGC 7 Aaron pretty easily here and i paid much less for it then i would have a PSA 7. 10 years ago people who paid the same for each company are finding out one is worth less than the other but i would think now you are paying what the card is worth..

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I not sure what you mean 'worth less'. If its the same price for a PSA and a BVG, yeah that could happen. But i am assuming you are paying less for the BVG card of the same grade, so it would be worth the same as what you paid at that time. I sold a SGC 7 Aaron pretty easily here and i paid much less for it then i would have a PSA 7. 10 years ago people who paid the same for each company are finding out one is worth less than the other but i would think now you are paying what the card is worth..

I hope I am paying what cards are worth. My difference is I am not buying "flips" and I might be the only not doing that? Most seem to care more about the plastic and opinion of a grader than the card. I guess I will be on an island by myself with my cards. But they will be nice looking cards...

[Peter_Spaeth]

My belief and it could be wrong is that for most reasonably expensive cards in a BVG holder, there is a story that started with PSA or SGC or both. I too have heard the rumors about grading sheet cut.

[herbc]

I've purchase a mix of PSA & BVG. Usually eye appeal seals the deal for me, after research. There are times that I've had cards graded by the service that's convenient for me at a venue. Recently I used SGC the first time due to them being the only service at a show. If or when an occasion arises that I want to move or let a card go; It's based on the card not the holder. I collect cards, and find it odd that many continue to ignore the obvious. I pay what I think the card is worth, regardless of flips.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by herbc

I've purchase a mix of PSA & BVG. Usually eye appeal seals the deal for me, after research. There are times that I've had cards graded by the service that's convenient for me at a venue. Recently I used SGC the first time due to them being the only service at a show. If or when an occasion arises that I want to move or let a card go; It's based on the card not the holder. I collect cards, and find it odd that many continue to ignore the obvious. I pay what I think the card is worth, regardless of flips.

I think it is only you and I that feel this way, Herb.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it is only you and I that feel this way, Herb.

Count me in as well. I own ungraded cards as well as cards in SGC, PSA, and BVG holders. If a card possesses the qualities I am looking for at the price point I am willing to pay, that is what leads me to purchase a card. I do not buy cards simply because they may reside in a particular slab with a particular number on the flip.

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[KingFisk]

I think I would be a little less concerned about what slab it's in/value maximization if I didn't always feel a little bit guilty about spending so much money on the hobby. I partially justify every purchase by characterizing my collection as an investment, just one I really, really love. Not a great thing to live with, but there it is.

[pokerplyr80]

I think part of the reason we all collect is that the cards have value and hopefully they will go up in value. The market as a whole says psa graded cards are worth more for the same grade. We can argue about why that is, or if it should be the case, but the bottom line is that's just the way it is. If I were setting up to be a dealer at shows I would focus on PSA cards and only pick up SGC or BVG cards if they look great for the grade and we're priced significantly less than what I could pick up the same card in a PSA holder for.

[MCoxon]

I nearly always go with PSA for the vague notion of brand (the image of product quality in my own personal view, and the network effect from it being the dominant platform in the eyes of the postwar marketplace, and the liquidity that being the "common currency" provides for PSA cards)


But I'll buy SGC (if centered) when the price beats the price of the same card in a PSA holder, with similar eye appeal, by a material amount. Eg, a 1969 SGC 84 Mickey Mantle Yellow Letter for $225 a while back.

I'll go with BVG, if the specific card has eye appeal and I just can't find a reasonable PSA or SGC version anywhere near SMR. My example here was a 1952 Topps Al Rosen. While SMR is $135 for a PSA 6, I spent months looking and bidding on decent PSA 6s that closed at over $250/300, with BINs in the $300-450 range. Finally, I found a nice centered BVG 6 for $125 and snapped it up.

[glynparson]

But my friends auction does great with bvg

[steve B]

I only have a handful of graded modern cards. A couple that came in packs, a couple that came with other stuff or were less than the grading would be. All three companies, and maybe a couple from some random brand X grader (From the local guys dollar box, and cards I'd have paid a dollar for anyway) and a few I sent in to SGC when they had a special for modern cards at I think $5 each. The ones I sent in I checked the populations with PSA, and all of them were pretty low in high grades. Of course, they didn't do all that well even though I thought they were really in great condition - Nice corners, centered, etc.

There's a few I might break down and send to PSA. I hate the whole concept of paying someone so I can pay them more.........But the difference in price will probably make the difference.

Overall I'm not too picky about grades and who graded it. If I like the card at the price there's a decent chance I'll buy it.
The value also isn't a big thing for me within reason. Having collected a lot of my stuff back when it was nearly worthless - And a big portion of the rest that was not expensive but is now nearly worthless- the price is just a way of keeping track of things. Most of the stuff I really like I'd still keep if it became entirely worthless. 88 Donruss anyone? Ok, pretty close to worthless, and if the good stuff becomes worthless those might be worth more as heating fuel.

Steve B

[DBesse27]

PSA is king. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't make it untrue.

[cardcountry]

Leon- If you are buying to resell at shows, for post war PSA sells best imo. I would rank them as 1. PSA, 2. SGC, 3. BVG. I have owned some SGC graded post war cards that have sold, they just took longer. I don't buy BVG cards, so I can't speak to how well they sell. If I buy SGC graded cards, it is usually with the intent of crossing over to PSA at a half grade lower.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Guys
A question or two ...... We know PSA has the registry and high end cards that go with it tied up, especially the post war and later cards. Those cards usually bring more money in a PSA holder because of the almighty number on the flip. However, right below the registry high end stuff do ya'll think post war cards sell for more in SGC or BVG/BGS? Personally, I am being agnostic in my approach to this issue when acquiring cards....I even have a BCCG or two .....I also like raw cards in this space. Coffee talk....

Lastly, will you acquire the highest end cards in holders besides PSA knowing they might be worth less?

In the hobby that I'm in, it really doesn't matter to me what holder the card is in or if it's raw. I personally try to find the best looking card in my price range.

With that being said, when I was growing up picking up cards, I didn't even consider condition, centering, etc. (was condition even a thing back then?!?) Even when I got back into collecting many, many years ago I didn't really consider condition that much and/or the centering of the card. It's probably been within the last 7 years or so I'm trying to find cards that are more appealing to the eye (upgrading).

Your last question would be a "yes".

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cardcountry

Leon- If you are buying to resell at shows, for post war PSA sells best imo. I would rank them as 1. PSA, 2. SGC, 3. BVG. I have owned some SGC graded post war cards that have sold, they just took longer. I don't buy BVG cards, so I can't speak to how well they sell. If I buy SGC graded cards, it is usually with the intent of crossing over to PSA at a half grade lower.

Welcome to the forum and thanks, Jeff. I think I might have to plow a new road then. While I think PSA is ok I don't think they are better than SGC or BVG in grading. IN marketing, at least for the registry....they (PSA) are the game. So I won't be buying into high dollar registry cards...but I will be buying High End cards in an "agnostic-to-the-holder" fashion. If investors want to invest into the fallacy that PSA is better at grading and deserves more money, then they can continue their errant ways. I am trekking on......Beckett, SGC, Raw or PSA.....will all be on display. I am not against PSA at all.... I just sent them my first submission ever. It might not be my last either!! If I think it makes sense, and with my cards it usually won't, I will send them more.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

Welcome to the forum and thanks, Jeff. I think I might have to plow a new road then. While I think PSA is ok I don't think they are better than SGC or BVG in grading. IN marketing, at least for the registry....they (PSA) are the game. So I won't be buying into high dollar registry cards...but I will be buying High End cards in an "agnostic-to-the-holder" fashion. If investors want to invest into the fallacy that PSA is better at grading and deserves more money, then they can continue their errant ways. I am trekking on......Beckett, SGC, Raw or PSA.....will all be on display. I am not against PSA at all.... I just sent them my first submission ever. It might not be my last either!! If I think it makes sense, and with my cards it usually won't, I will send them more.

I track my sales and have cards in all three holders. I'm only interested breaking even (not on every sale but overall), but have over the years had a positive return on investment (or cost). My ROI is essentially identical between BVG, SGC and PSA. It is remarkable how close the three percentages. So from my point of view

"What difference at this point does it make?”

[mintacular]

I have been buying graded vintage for 10 years. BVG vintage is extremely inconsistent , u never know what u are going to get! And the market has picked up on that.

Of course that doesn't mean there aren't some decent cards in their holders....

I don't know everything but do feel confident that bvg vintage is a crap shoot and I would stay stay away!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mintacular

I have been buying graded vintage for 10 years. BVG vintage is extremely inconsistent , u never know what u are going to get! And the market has picked up on that.

Of course that doesn't mean there aren't some decent cards in their holders....

I don't know everything but do feel confident that bvg vintage is a crap shoot and I would stay stay away!

I intend to use SGC and BVG for most of my grading going forward. We all have to go by what we know....

I should add that I will absolutely use PSA when it makes sense. They are a good company, imo. On higher valued cards sometimes it makes sense due to the perceived value, I do get the overall point.

[midwaylandscaping]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Guys
A question or two ...... We know PSA has the registry and high end cards that go with it tied up, especially the post war and later cards. Those cards usually bring more money in a PSA holder because of the almighty number on the flip. However, right below the registry high end stuff do ya'll think post war cards sell for more in SGC or BVG/BGS? Personally, I am being agnostic in my approach to this issue when acquiring cards....I even have a BCCG or two .....I also like raw cards in this space. Coffee talk....

Lastly, will you acquire the highest end cards in holders besides PSA knowing they might be worth less?

For the second question, I use SGC and BVG/BGS in that circumstance. Good value. Drexler RC bought 3 years ago. Not doing a Drexler registry due to Star cards not being graded by PSA. A rather easy PSA 9 if I wanted to cross over. My scanner doesn't do it justice

[IMG][/IMG]

[botn]

From inception BVG graded sheet cut cards. Think I still see some of the 57 Topps stars floating around in 9.5s from back in the day. I do not have a lot of confidence in their grading knowing that certain east coast card doctors use them when they cannot get the cards past PSA or SGC. I also see inconsistency in grading, as others have mentioned, but I see it with PSA and to a lessor extent SGC as well. When I see a high grade or pricey vintage card in a BVG holder I assume it had already made the rounds at PSA and SGC.

[KCRfan1]

I'll coat-tail on what you said Greg. I see inconsistency as well, with PSA but that's due to their tightening up their grading standards. BVG I tend to shy away from as I have seen too many trimmed cards receiving grades from them.

I really haven't caught that from PSA or SGC, just inconsistent grading.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by botn

From inception BVG graded sheet cut cards. Think I still see some of the 57 Topps stars floating around in 9.5s from back in the day. I do not have a lot of confidence in their grading knowing that certain east coast card doctors use them when they cannot get the cards past PSA or SGC. I also see inconsistency in grading, as others have mentioned, but I see it with PSA and to a lessor extent SGC as well. When I see a high grade or pricey vintage card in a BVG holder I assume it had already made the rounds at PSA and SGC.

I think there could be more to it than what you say. Maybe some people don't send their altered cards to certain TPGs as they have a hard time finding people to do it for them and they can't submit themselves? I just gave BVG cards to be graded, really nice rookie HOF'ers which I am pretty sure haven't been submitted before. I trust BVG to get it right as well as SGC. My only submission of 2 cards to PSA, one of which, is this mantle below, left me disappointed ...Yeah, this is s 2 on a scale of 10? How can anyone think they are any better than the rest, with things like this and everything else we know, puzzles me a little. They have been more successful in marketing, I will give them that. But as for grading, best case is they are equal in my mind. If the perception of poorer grading keeps BVG cards values down a little that is fine. There are lots of collectors, including myself, who want them.