Let's see some SCRAPPS!

[Rad_Hazard]

Let's see some SCRAPPS! AKA 1888 H. D. Smith & Company Baseball Gum Card Die-Cuts.

From REA: For decades, the set was referred to as "Scrapps" or "Scrapps Tobacco," but recent extraordinary newspaper archive research has finally allowed for the definitive identification of the issuer: H. D. Smith & Company, a Cincinnati Candy and Gum manufacturer. The hobby has long known that these die-cuts were not actually issued by "Scrapps Tobacco" (as no brand of that name has ever been found) but we personally never thought we would ever learn exactly how they were issued. The fact is, they were actually issued as premiums with gum!

Here are my 2 recent pickups:

[Casey2296]

Very nice cards Rad. I'm glad they finally figured out this was an E issue, that being said I love the "Scrapps" designation, I think that's what I'll name my next dog.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Let's see some SCRAPPS! AKA 1888 H. D. Smith & Company Baseball Gum Card Die-Cuts.

From REA: For decades, the set was referred to as "Scrapps" or "Scrapps Tobacco," but recent extraordinary newspaper archive research has finally allowed for the definitive identification of the issuer: H. D. Smith & Company, a Cincinnati Candy and Gum manufacturer. The hobby has long known that these die-cuts were not actually issued by "Scrapps Tobacco" (as no brand of that name has ever been found) but we personally never thought we would ever learn exactly how they were issued. The fact is, they were actually issued as premiums with gum!

Thanks for including this info...I guess I missed the late breaking news. I think I like it being a candy issue compared to a tobacco issue.

Brian

[Rad_Hazard]

Thanks Phil! Scrapps is an EXCELLENT dog name!

Brian, I found that interesting as well and love that they are gum rather than tobacco, makes them very unique. I had no idea myself until I saw the Brouthers in the REA auction. I've been looking for a reasonably priced one for a while and this was perfect. Best hitter of the 19th century in my book.

[Casey2296]

I might be completely off base but wasn't it Al Crisafulli that established these as an E issue?

[Rad_Hazard]

From what I can see you are absolutely right, although the Crisafulli article is nowhere to be found. I would have loved to read that.

I did find this link which tells much of the same story but no mention of Crisafulli, although he was definitely the person who discovered how and who issued them.

https://dannwoellertthefoodetymologi...baseball-card/

[Casey2296]

Al's a member here so maybe he'll chime in and tell the story again but he has an incredible auction he's closing on Sunday so he might have his hands full.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Al's a member here so maybe he'll chime in and tell the story again but he has an incredible auction he's closing on Sunday so he might have his hands full.

Excellent!

I did find this and I think it's the article by Al so I'll post it just in case, highly recommend it, great stuff:

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/th...rapps-tobacco/

[Casey2296]

There it is, awesome article and props to everyone involved, it's what makes this hobby great.

[brianp-beme]

. (period, for those with limited visual acuity)

Brian (duplicate poster extraordinaire)

[brianp-beme]

And just shows you that sometimes excellent hobby research like this is slow to travel...I feel like there are many more like me that had no idea about the origin of this set, and it has been 8 years since this info was originally shared. Thanks to Al, the OP, and Mr. Linker for the link (OP and Linker both Rad_Hazard).

Brian

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Always thought these were gorgeous and undervalued, although my frame of reference for values goes back a long way. The fact that they're now considered the granddaddy of all candy issues just makes them all the more appealing. (And I think I'll still call them Scrapps. It's just a great name.)

[HexsHeroes]

.
Here is the Hanlon scrapp I owned (colors are washed out in this image )

It had always been my plan to collect the entire Detroit team, and maybe entire set. Alas, was not to be. But still enjoy viewing them.

[jcmtiger]

Not mine anymore, but enjoyed them.

[Al C.risafulli]

Hey All!

For a guy who is lucky enough to get to do hobby research all the time, this was among my favorites.

But it also brings up an issue, one that I've been talking about incessantly for quite some time.

When I had all my research together on this, I immediately reached out to the editor of the Standard Catalog, who reviewed it and made the editorial decision to update the Catalog with the new set name.

Today, there is no resource like this that I'm aware of. There is no central place to report new discoveries, new checklist additions, new sets, variations, and the like. To my knowledge, there has not been an update to the Standard Catalog in nearly a decade.

Meanwhile, if you submit an HD Smith card to a grading company, they will grade it as a Scrapps Tobacco card. Some auction houses and ebay listings still call them Scrapps Tobacco.

It should be common knowledge at this point that these cards are HD Smith & Co. I made this discovery almost a decade ago and published it on the LOTG Blog and via Broadcast email to LOTG customers at that time. That year at the National, I presented my findings at the Net54 dinner. The Standard Catalog updated that year, and REA began using the actual name at the same time.

Part of the reason to disclose this research as widely as possible is so that other hobbyists can expand on this research, so we can all learn more. For instance, this is a GUM CARD ISSUE. An interested collector might be able to tell us when the HD Smith cards were distributed, relative to the G&B issue. What are the first gum cards? G&B, or HD Smith? An interested collector might be able to research how the gum and cards were packed - in tins? Wrappers? How were they advertised?

The more widely this information is disseminated, the more collectors become aware of it, and the more they can dig in and do more research to expand on what's already known.

The hobby needs a regularly-updated Standard Catalog.

-Al

[90feetaway]

Really nice , colorful issue. I used to have O'Neil and Hanlon. Anyone have a Commisky to post?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Hey All!

For a guy who is lucky enough to get to do hobby research all the time, this was among my favorites.

But it also brings up an issue, one that I've been talking about incessantly for quite some time.

When I had all my research together on this, I immediately reached out to the editor of the Standard Catalog, who reviewed it and made the editorial decision to update the Catalog with the new set name.

Today, there is no resource like this that I'm aware of. There is no central place to report new discoveries, new checklist additions, new sets, variations, and the like. To my knowledge, there has not been an update to the Standard Catalog in nearly a decade.

Meanwhile, if you submit an HD Smith card to a grading company, they will grade it as a Scrapps Tobacco card. Some auction houses and ebay listings still call them Scrapps Tobacco.

It should be common knowledge at this point that these cards are HD Smith & Co. I made this discovery almost a decade ago and published it on the LOTG Blog and via Broadcast email to LOTG customers at that time. The Standard Catalog updated that year, and REA began using the actual name at the same time.

Part of the reason to disclose this research as widely as possible is so that other hobbyists can expand on this research, so we can all learn more. For instance, this is a GUM CARD ISSUE. An interested collector might be able to tell us when the HD Smith cards were distributed, relative to the G&B issue. What are the first gum cards? G&B, or HD Smith? An interested collector might be able to research how the gum and cards were packed - in tins? Wrappers? How were they advertised?

The more widely this information is disseminated, the more collectors become aware of it, and the more they can dig in and do more research to expand on what's already known.

The hobby needs a regularly-updated Standard Catalog.

-Al

Absolutely great point Al. Hasn't been a decade yet though, has it? I thought the last edition of the SCD catalogs was 2017, but I know Bob Lemke had left his editorial position a few years before. And not sure the successor(s) was as keen as updating things as Bob was. I miss them myself, and used to get the new copy almost every year.

Unfortunately, written publications (books, newspapers, magazines) have been going the way of the dinosaurs and being replaced by the younger generations with podcasts, digital books, social media, internet, etc. Also, unfortunately, though we here on Net 54 would likely be all in for such an annual, updated publication, I think we're still too small of a potential market for someone/group to want to take on the financial responsibility for doing the ongoing work for such a great publication.

I know people point to places like our own site, or maybe the OBC site with their checklists and descriptive history. But our site doesn't cover everything, for everybody. You have to come on and ask questions, but even then, there is so, so much we never get to or talk about on here that would have been covered in the old SCD catalogs. And as great as the OBC site is, I've looked at their checklists and set descriptions, and know they are not continually reviewed and updated, nor are they anywhere near as all-encompassing as the SCD catalogs were. The price guide aspect of the SCD catalogs would be even more inaccurate and behind the times today, given how things in the market can seemingly change so quickly and dramatically these days. But I still found them somewhat useful in at least giving one the background and knowledge of potentially which cards in which sets were viewed as SPs or variations, and thus more valuable, or as to the view of which cards in a particular set were the most valuable tier, second tier, and so on. Having a ballpark idea is better than having no idea at all. And knowing that cards in this or that particular set go for more or less than those in other sets, can at times be fruitful and informative as well.

Of course, there are probably others that are happy there is not an SCD annual catalog publication anymore so that newcomers to the hobby (or old timers that are getting back in or that haven't kept up) looking to get into the vintage/pre-war side don't have a ready, all-in-one source they can go to for knowledge and information. Let's those that know have a possible advantage over those that don't, right? Still wish we had them coming out every year though also, like Al.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Hey All!

For a guy who is lucky enough to get to do hobby research all the time, this was among my favorites.

But it also brings up an issue, one that I've been talking about incessantly for quite some time.

When I had all my research together on this, I immediately reached out to the editor of the Standard Catalog, who reviewed it and made the editorial decision to update the Catalog with the new set name.

Today, there is no resource like this that I'm aware of. There is no central place to report new discoveries, new checklist additions, new sets, variations, and the like. To my knowledge, there has not been an update to the Standard Catalog in nearly a decade.

Meanwhile, if you submit an HD Smith card to a grading company, they will grade it as a Scrapps Tobacco card. Some auction houses and ebay listings still call them Scrapps Tobacco.

It should be common knowledge at this point that these cards are HD Smith & Co. I made this discovery almost a decade ago and published it on the LOTG Blog and via Broadcast email to LOTG customers at that time. That year at the National, I presented my findings at the Net54 dinner. The Standard Catalog updated that year, and REA began using the actual name at the same time.

Part of the reason to disclose this research as widely as possible is so that other hobbyists can expand on this research, so we can all learn more. For instance, this is a GUM CARD ISSUE. An interested collector might be able to tell us when the HD Smith cards were distributed, relative to the G&B issue. What are the first gum cards? G&B, or HD Smith? An interested collector might be able to research how the gum and cards were packed - in tins? Wrappers? How were they advertised?

The more widely this information is disseminated, the more collectors become aware of it, and the more they can dig in and do more research to expand on what's already known.

The hobby needs a regularly-updated Standard Catalog.

-Al

Thank you Al for the original research and this breakthrough!

Kutzner & Berger might be the printer of the H.D. Smith & Co. "Scrapps".

Here is a great resource I found on different scrap companies of the era:

https://www.picture-scraps.com/colle...r%5D=46&page=1

https://www.picture-scraps.com/producers

[67airborne]

I like the fact that they are a gum issue. I think it makes them a little more unique in a time period of mainly tobacco issues. I also like that this company thought so highly of its marketing strategy that they would send away to Germany to get what they thought was a higher standard of printing and must have taken months with shipping and production. They don’t seem readily available and you don’t see them often in pristine condition either. Most of the ones I’ve seen have all been lower grade, but I also haven’t been watching them forever since I only restarted collecting in the last couple years after a 20 year break.
Also, are there any of the known issues that are harder to find over the others that anyone has seen so far?

[phlflyer1]

Definitely a beautiful and, IMO, underappreciated issue.

Thanks Al for the research that you did on these way back and for sharing that info with the hobby.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

When I first heard of these in the 1980's, they were referred to in a Krause publication as Scraps (one p) and no mention was made of them being a tobacco issue. If I recall, somebody submitted them to the Q&A column in Baseball Cards magazine. Whoever answered the person's query basically replied that they were a mysterious 19th century baseball issue known as Scraps, for lack of better knowledge, and that they were fairly plentiful.

When was the second "p" added? When was the first mention of them as "Scrapps Tobacco", and do we know who coined this incorrect term?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

When I first heard of these in the 1980's, they were referred to in a Krause publication as Scraps (one p) and no mention was made of them being a tobacco issue. If I recall, somebody submitted them to the Q&A column in Baseball Cards magazine. Whoever answered the person's query basically replied that they were a mysterious 19th century baseball issue known as Scraps, for lack of better knowledge, and that they were fairly plentiful.

When was the second "p" added? When was the first mention of them as "Scrapps Tobacco", and do we know who coined this incorrect term?

From Al Crisafulli's article;

It is well-known at this point in the hobby that no such brand as “Scrapps Tobacco” ever existed. In fact, none other than Rob Lifson of Robert Edward Auctions, in a 2005 auction description, explained “This seems an appropriate time to clear up a long-standing, obscure hobby mystery relating to the identification of this issue as “Scrapps Tobacco.” This identification first appeared in The Sports Collectors Bible (1975). The fact is, there is no tobacco brand by the name of “Scrapps.” The responsibility for this erroneous attribution, we must admit, falls squarely on the shoulders of Robert Edward Auctions’ President Robert Lifson. ‘Back in 1974, when I was working on The Sports Collectors Bible, editor Bert Sugar called me up and wanted me to clarify the name of this issue. I wasn’t sure what this set should be called, so I called up Dr. Lawrence Kurzok and asked him. Kurzok was one of the great old-time collectors who was a contemporary of Jefferson Burdick. In a very quick fact-checking conversation, he told me they were ‘Scrapps,’ and assuming this was a tobacco issue, I misinterpreted him and thought that he meant ‘Scrapps Tobacco.’ What he really meant was that these cards were a series designed to be glued in scrapbooks…I reported back that this set should officially be catalogued ‘Scrapps Tobacco’ brand…”

[brianp-beme]

Quote from above post (as told by Rob Lifson):

"I wasn’t sure what this set should be called, so I called up Dr. Lawrence Kurzok and asked him. Kurzok was one of the great old-time collectors who was a contemporary of Jefferson Burdick. In a very quick fact-checking conversation, he told me they were ‘Scrapps,’ and assuming this was a tobacco issue, I misinterpreted him and thought that he meant ‘Scrapps Tobacco.’ What he really meant was that these cards were a series designed to be glued in scrapbooks..."

Here is a T206 with a Lawrence Kurzrok stamp.

Brian

[ValKehl]

Al & Bob, I've long wished there was an online, comprehensive repository for info re vintage (pre-War) baseball cards - an online vintage baseball card Wikipedia, if you will. The Old Cardboard, Pre-War Cards, and probably a few other websites I'm not familiar with have some of this info, but there is so much more to be captured. It would take a considerable effort (i.e., a "labor of love") by many dedicated collectors to achieve what I have in mind, but being an old fart, I don't see this happening in my lifetime.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Al & Bob, I've long wished there was an online, comprehensive repository for info re vintage (pre-War) baseball cards - an online vintage baseball card Wikipedia, if you will. The Old Cardboard, Pre-War Cards, and probably a few other websites I'm not familiar with have some of this info, but there is so much more to be captured. It would take a considerable effort (i.e., a "labor of love") by many dedicated collectors to achieve what I have in mind, but being an old fart, I don't see this happening in my lifetime.

I am with you Val. Would love to see something either online, or in written form at least. As you said, there are various sites out there, like OBC, but they are not as complete as the SCD Catalogs were, and are not kept up to date in all cases. About the closest thing I think you could get to something online would be a copy of the SCD catalog in digital form. I seem to remember that one year they sold a CD version of the catalog in PDF format I believe, along with the printed version. That has to be more than 10 years ago though. It wouldn't have been updated since then, but at least you could maybe have access to the catalog by saving/uploading a copy of the file, and then retrieve it in some fashion on your smart phone or some other piece of equipment.

[Al C.risafulli]

I'd be happy with an online database, but I really want a printed book as well.

These books were available at big bookstores like Barnes & Noble. I can walk into a store like that and pull off the shelf (or special order) Krause publications like the 2020 US Coin Digest, the 2020 Standard Catalog of World Coins, the 2020 Collector Car Price Guide, the Goldmine Record Album Price Guide, the 2017 Unofficial Ultimate Collectors Guide of Pokemon Cards, the 2019 Antique Trader Antiques & Collectibles Price Guide, the 2018 Magic: The Gathering Ultimate Collector's Guide, many published in the last 2-3 years.

Beyond the fact that I've got a Standard Catalog sitting next to me at all times during the day, right within arm's reach, and I'm paging through it 3-4 times a week, I can't help but think of the people with zero hobby knowledge who stumble upon cards that they need to identify, walk into a bookstore, and have zero quality reference material. The Beckett guides, IMO, just don't cut it, really.

I realize that Bob is gone, but in his absence for a few years Don Fluckinger did a fine job keeping it maintained. I feel like at this point, updating it after what seems like it was probably at least five years and probably more would be a massive undertaking, but I've got to figure collectors would be more than forthcoming with information if they were told there would be a 2024 Standard Catalog, and most of us would run right out and buy a copy. Heck, I'd be three or four, AND subscribe to a website.

Sorry for the hijack, I like Scrapps Tobacco cards.

-Al

[Joe_G.]

I've posted this before many years back, feels like the right time for a repost . . . here is my circa 1888 treasure chest.

[Rad_Hazard]

Joe…that is incredible!!!

[kkkkandp]

No longer mine, but I loved it when he was!

[darkhorse9]

I've recently reached out to both PSA and SGC. Both have hemmed and hawed about changing their designation for these.

It defies logic why they continue to ignore proven facts.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

I've recently reached out to both PSA and SGC. Both have hemmed and hated about changing their designation for these.

It defies logic why they continue to ignore proven facts.

Same as local government policy, easy answer is no, they don't have the bandwidth (read balls) or intelligence to actually make change.

[Tiger Eye]

I have been lurking here for a while, but recently took a few years off from collecting. At 70 years old, I am trying to decide my next steps with regard to my collection. But one thing is certain, I will not get rid of my Scrapps collection I have a complete set graded by SGC. Here are a few :
https://net54baseball.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
https://net54baseball.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
https://net54baseball.com/images/attach/jpg.gif

And , thanks to LOTG for identifying the cards properly and allowing me to actually acquire this card through the auction to truly complete the set:
https://net54baseball.com/images/attach/jpg.gif

[darkhorse9]

Can we all agree that "Scrapps" look so much better in SGC slabs than in PSA?

[Al C.risafulli]

Can we all agree that "Scrapps" look so much better in SGC slabs than in PSA?

When SGC used to hand-cut the holder to accommodate the card, they were fantastic. Now, they just slap them into the slab with a big square cutout.

Vernon, in my opinion, you're the owner of the most important card that exists (from this set). That Robinson/Gleason pair is the one with the "H.D. Smith & Co." identifier on it, which is what sent me on the wild goose chase to identify the company. Without that particular card, they'd still be Scrapps Tobacco.

-Al

[Tiger Eye]

Al, I have a few cards that do not have the black insert. I contacted SGC and they told me that they do not cut the inserts anymore. I do agree that the inserts make the presentation of the card look a lot better.