T206 Brown Old Mill prices

[Sean]

The recent thread about the numbers and prices for Drum vs. Uzit backs got me thinking: With the recent find of Cobb backs, the brown Old Mills are now the rarest T206 back. What will this do to the price for brown OMs?

Will they go up in value, being the rarest? Or does this find have no impact on brown OMs, as they were already quite rare?

[mrvster]

great question......as you know, brown old mills are printer's scrap......scraps are unique unto themselves....

cobb backs shouldn't even be included in T206...

broadleaf 460 should be the "rarest" possible, issued back....

cobb, brown old mill, upside down backs, blank backs are in there "own catagories" imho.....

brown om pricing can go anywhere

I'm guessing a fair price should be 10-15 k.....but putting them up in price range next to design change proofs, planks, ect???? just seems a little much.....I'm jealous tho since I don't own one of these beautiful scraps

[Bpm0014]

Did one just sell on our BST (by accident) yesterday? Although it doesn't look handcut, but still........

[mrvster]

jerry kinda nailed it explaining drum vs. uzit.... pricing disparity vs. rarity.....

this is an anomaly where as the rarity doesn't represent the market price...

uzits....imho....are rarer than drum......drum are harder to peel out of super set collectors hands

[mrvster]

OMG!!!!!! IT IS!

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by mrvster

jerry kinda nailed it explaining drum vs. uzit.... pricing disparity vs. rarity.....

this is an anomaly where as the rarity doesn't represent the market price...

uzits....imho....are rarer than drum......drum are harder to peel out of super set collectors hands

Wasn't the outcome that Uzit was more rare than Drum? Broadleaf 460 is more rare than Uzit?

According to my tracker these were the rarest top 7 according to an article published by a fellow Net54 member sometime after the year 2000. Are we to assume that the tides have really shifted? What would we then categorize as the order?

1 Ty Cobb Assorted Assorted Factory 33, 4th Dist. NC
2 Old Mill (Southern League) Overprint(s) Assorted Assorted Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY
3 Old Mill (Southern League) Brown Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY
4 Lenox (brown) Assorted Assorted Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY 1911
5 Broad Leaf 460 460 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA 1910-1911
6 Drum 350 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA 1909-1911
7 Uzit Assorted Assorted Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY 1911

[JerryTotino]

Sean,

I was actually thinking about how the Brown Old Mills would now be viewed since the “Lucky 7” find was announced. I was looking at it from a rarity point of view though. I was hoping that the T206Resource website would make some sort of reference to the “Lucky 7” find and change the T206 rarity list accordingly.

As far as pricing goes I think only time will tell if there is any impact. The last example at auction went for 24K. Possibly the “Lucky 7” find might bring more attention to T206 backs in general. If more high end collectors become interested in completing a full T206 back run then the demand will increase for Brown Old Mills. Note: This assumes these collectors consider a printer scrap as a unique back.

Johnny if we use your logic and remove the Ty Cobb back and the Brown Old Mill back from the rarity list the Brown Lenox would be at the top of the list. BL460’s are very rare, but there appears to be fewer known Brown Lenox examples at this point in time.

Thanks,

Jerry

[mrvster]

almost forgot about brown lenox it is factory cut! brown lenox definitely rarest factory issued back....

but I believe uzit is rarer than drum total population wise....

[mrvster]

we think alike just saw your post.....also.....I may have been having"brown old mill eyes"....my monitor has the card "looking" brown

trying to get some kind of confrmation

I want a brown om so bad

[Sean]

Wow, that card sure does look brown!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Sean

Wow, that card sure does look brown!

+1

[ullmandds]

are you guys referring to the westlake card?

[JerryTotino]

I could be wrong, but the Old Mill from B/S/T does not look brown to me. There are a few shades of black on these backs. Some look washed out giving the impression that it might be brown.

Below is a sample of a brown old mill:

Sid_Smith_Brown_Old_Mill_back001.jpg

Hopefully either the seller or buyer will confirm.

Thanks,

Jerry

[sgbernard]

I agree: if we're talking about the Westlake, it looks (normal) black to me.

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by JerryTotino

I could be wrong, but the Old Mill from B/S/T does not look brown to me.

+1

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by sgbernard

I agree: if we're talking about the Westlake, it looks (normal) black to me.

Faded black but that's how the Browns usually look no? I agree that it is a black though.

[Thromdog]

Blue Old Mill.

Joking.

[4815162342]

But, but, but, it looks brown!

[ullmandds]

it does...kinda! when u compare it to a blackie...the difference is more dramatic.

[Bpm0014]

I don't see a hand cut... But Johnny does. And I trust his judgment as much as anyone's. It definitely looks brown when compared to a regular OM.

[mrvster]

thanks my friend! you are becoming a phenom with these I was starring at it last night for over an hour or two.....what caught my eye was a "dip" or what appeared to be a "fatter" border on bottom.....my monitor fools me of the "shades" of black, depends on what angle I view it at.........I would love to measure, ect......I was 50/50 last night on my opinion.... a lot of times, a hand cut can be worn down to look almost factory dimensions/ or cut......takes a lot of observing the actual card.....otey is a possible, yet unconfirmed would be a beauty....id trade some nice cards for a brown om

unfortunately, I think my monitor fooled me on this! but I'm dying to hear the final verdict..... I would love to have it in hand

[The Nasty Nati]

It definitely looks brown. Looks like someone may have got a steal, but to me it's too hard to tell if it's scrap.

[atx840]

Bought this one off eBay, scans can be very deceiving.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

But, but, but, it looks brown!

Compared to Jerry's card it looks too dark; more like the color of a brown Lenox than a brown Old Mill.

[Brian Weisner]

It's faded black.... I've owned one and held 3-4 more and they all have a similar look that is unmistakeable....


Be well Brian

PS Hey Johnny, I owe you a phone call... will try in the next few days.

[asoriano]

Holy smokes, a Brian Weisner sighting! I hope you are well buddy!

[Leon]

Brown Old Mills are another color while Cobb back is beautiful and completely different than any other. I don't think it will affect their already fairly steep values.

[ashes13]

Fascinated by the Old Mill Brown Back discussion so of course had to look at backs of some t206s in the collection. This old Mill is "brown" when compared to black old mills, but not nearly as brown as the Hindu and not as brown as the Broadleaf. But when you put it next to a black old mill, my eyes see brown on the back. It is definitely a brown ink, but a darker brown than the hindu and broadleaf. I dont know how to tell if it is sheet cut but does look thinner than the others. However it is Bill Hart so it appears that it cant be a true brown old mill if we are 100 % certain that only certain SL can be brown old mill. Regardless, it was fun trying to discern what shade of brown or black it is.

the slabbed card also looks brownish but its a psa 4 so cant be sheet cut.








here is the "brownish" back next to clearly black back

[ullmandds]

Looks black to me

[JoeKerr]

There are lots of things that can't be true until they are true. No one thought 7 Ty Cobb backs would show up in one shot. For all we know someone has an entire stack of Brown Old Mill cards, waiting to hit the market. That is the fun I suppose.

Statistically speaking, I am sure a find is inevitable, however the card shown is 100 percent black. What I am stuck wondering though is why no one talks about the white old mill.

Sheesh. It's always black old mill on black old mill violence.

Joe

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by JoeKerr

There are lots of things that can't be true until they are true. No one thought 7 Ty Cobb backs would show up in one shot. For all we know someone has an entire stack of Brown Old Mill cards, waiting to hit the market. That is the fun I suppose.

Statistically speaking, I am sure a find is inevitable, however the card shown is 100 percent black. What I am stuck wondering though is why no one talks about the white old mill.

Sheesh. It's always black old mill on black old mill violence.

Joe

sheeeit man...white old mills matter too!