Polar Bear Tobacco

[Ribbens]

Need some help identifying this Polar Bear tobacco "pack". I believe it contains a T206 tobacco card, thanks for any advice here.

[sreader3]

First of all, look at the tax stamp and tell us the date.

If it is a 1909 stamp, you have a good chance.

If it is a 1910 stamp, you have a small chance.

Else, you have very little chance.

Edited to add: Paging Jon Canfield.

[rdwyer]

Has the right factory number, district and state. So the date of the tax stamp should be 1909 or 1910 as mentioned above.

[iwantitiwinit]

Open it up and let's see!!!!!

[sreader3]

I should have also paged Richard Dwyer.

[gemmint77]

Cool pack! Nice pick up. Hope to see you open it.

[rdwyer]

If everything matches, I would open because it might contain 5 cards!

[bbcard1]

Odds of staining due to the loose leaf tobacco would be very high...

[rdwyer]

Odds of staining due to the loose leaf tobacco would be very high...

I'll take a stained Cobb any way I can get it.

[whelenfan]

open it already!!!

[Cerberus]

Please post a clear, close-up scan/photo of the blue tax stamp. Many of these Polar Bear pouches with the proper 1910 tax stamp, unfortunately have an over-stamp, often in red type, dating the manufacture of the pouch/pack to 1914. Mine does--hope yours doesn't!

[Ribbens]

I will check the red date on the Polar Tobacco package and report that year, here are a couple of more pictures. In addition I had valuable input from Jon Canfield from T206.com as well on this. Curious what card is in the tobacco pouch from 1914 ?

[1880nonsports]

I've personally examined over 10 unopened polar packages and viewed as many online. I owned two - since sold. In almost every case the overprint was extant and readable. Most have had a mid 1920's date, one had a 1914 date, and two had a 1950's stamping. Interestingly ALL had 1909/1910 stamps. I was first made aware of the pack's existence in a 1994 (?) SCD story.........
Can't recall where I first heard/saw reference to FIVE cards in a package - think it's urban legend :-)

[canjond]

I've been in touch with the OP, and Henry - you're spot on. In fact, this is my email correspondence with the OP from early this morning (in case anyone else has interest or comes across one of these PBs)...

"...to answer your questions, the pack - if correct - could have the possibility of a baseball card, and may have contained 2-5 (there were rumors of 5 once being found in a pack although there's no evidence to substantiate that). That said, I've never seen an unopened period-correct pack. Many people see the 1909 tax stamp and assume it's from 1909, but that's not the case. Also, sometimes you will see a bit of paper loss on the top of a tax stamp - that's a clear indication that someone was trying to erase the date of the overprint to pass the pack off as older.

About 30 years ago, there was a find of about 20 unopened Polar Bear packs from 1920-1925. The majority of the unopened packs in existence are from that find. That's not to say yours isn't correct - I just need to see the top to help you more."

[rdwyer]

Agree with Jon. Overprinting is most important. If it's 1910 or 1911, open that baby up!

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Ribbens

Need some help identifying this Polar Bear tobacco "pack". I believe it contains a T206 tobacco card, thanks for any advice here.

WOW That's amazing if you do decide to open it make a video and send us the link!!!

[xplainer]

Yeah Josh,
Sure beats my 79 wax pack production.

Curious to see what happens here.

[pawpawdiv9]

Rip it open.
Maybe this Guy on Ebay will do the same with his Polar Bear pack:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLAR-BEAR-T...kAAOSwd0BVxOIh
Its stated as 1909, but i had a hard time zooming in, to me almost looks like 1911...IDK??
Just trying to get a idea of what you guys are talking about, stuff like this is interesting.

[Ribbens]

I was able to inspect this Polar Tobacco "pack" tonight in the Boston area and sorry to say the " red overprint" was not able to be viewed with any degree of certainty as to the exact date. I took a pass on this item. Thanks for all your help with this item it was "a good run" as they say.......

[canjond]

Here's a scan of a PB pack to illustrate the overprint. Despite th 1910 tax stamp, this one is dated 1931.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Ribbens

I was able to inspect this Polar Tobacco "pack" tonight in the Boston area and sorry to say the " red overprint" was not able to be viewed with any degree of certainty as to the exact date. I took a pass on this item. Thanks for all your help with this item it was "a good run" as they say.......

And it was a good learning experience on packs and overprints. ...Generally speaking a pack can't be specifically dated without an overprint on the stamp. Sellers seem to always pick the dates of packs without stamps as dates the cards came in them, for some reason.

[1880nonsports]

the link to the eBay pack shows a "sample" pack. I suppose if I were giving away samples of my product and it was within the insert time frame - putting a card in the package might not be a bad strategy. While I have never heard of this being the case - I've never actually been able to verify a story of ANY PB card being pulled from a package - although logically the sale pack was their point of origin. Not surprisingly I can no longer remember if there's actually an advertisement in print linking the cards to any particular package as these T brands are a bit too recent for my current focus and I only have room to remember one or two things at a time . Perhaps someone could share such an ad if it exists? If it's out there dollars to doughnuts someone here has a copy!

My original intent before I sidetracked myself was curiosity about the asking price?

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

If everything matches, I would open because it might contain 5 cards!

Rich, Jon & Gentleman...

With the Possibility of Any Pack having 5 Cards in it,
Wouldn't Weighing the Pack be Wise!?

Might You Guyz Know What a Pack
Of Smoke's From 1909, 1910 Weigh wit 1 Card in it?

Wit No Cards...?
Wit 2 or More Cards in it?

[iwantitiwinit]

Moisture content at this stage will cause packs with similar contents to vary in weight, a pack with 1 card might weigh the same as a pack with more cards depending on how tightly the package is sealed and where it was stored.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

the link to the eBay pack shows a "sample" pack. I suppose if I were giving away samples of my product and it was within the insert time frame - putting a card in the package might not be a bad strategy. While I have never heard of this being the case - I've never actually been able to verify a story of ANY PB card being pulled from a package - although logically the sale pack was their point of origin. Not surprisingly I can no longer remember if there's actually an advertisement in print linking the cards to any particular package as these T brands are a bit too recent for my current focus and I only have room to remember one or two things at a time . Perhaps someone could share such an ad if it exists? If it's out there dollars to doughnuts someone here has a copy!

My original intent before I sidetracked myself was curiosity about the asking price?

Henry. The closest I can get to your request of a card era advertisement which showed a PB pack would be this large tin. I purchased this from another board member long ago.

He told me that when he uncovered it originally, T206 cards were actually found inside of it that were tucked in between the top lid and a sifting screen.

[1880nonsports]

even nicer than the one I got in the mid 1990's from a dedicated TOBACCO "stuff" only auction that Mr. Mint ran containing some guy's pack/tin/advertising accumulation (Dennis Goldstein or something like that?).
What I meant was possibly something like the Hindu or Piedmont newspaper advertisements where the cards are shown along with the pack or a sales announcement. Something like that........

[3-2-count]

Not seen any paper advertisements w/ cards as you mention Henry, but the search will continue.

[Leon]

Always enjoy seeing that one. Very majestic.

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Henry. The closest I can get to your request of a card era advertisement which showed a PB pack would be this large tin. I purchased this from another board member long ago.

He told me that when he uncovered it originally, T206 cards were actually found inside of it that were tucked in between the top lid and a sifting screen.

[1880nonsports]

that's been relisted couple times. Very nice condition and not that much overpriced considering. Few Polar bins if any in better shape. Likely when I move in a few months I'll be selling mine or my indian bin. Really can only justify keeping one and the graphics are better on my sure shot bin. What a dilemma.

No affiliation with seller or item.

[T205 GB]

Anyone know anything about a sample pack?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLAR-BEAR-T...kAAOSwd0BVxOIh

[canjond]

I think it's extremely unlikely a card would be packaged with the sample pack. It's a neat piece for sure, but there is no evidence to indicate distribution was made with sample packs.

[canjond]

Here is one other amazing Polar Bear piece that unfortunately was likely stolen. I purchased this in December off of eBay. The Polar Bear crate had to be shipped via UPS in its own custom-made plywood crate that was approximately 3.5 feet long, by 2.5 feet high, and weighed 75 pounds. It left Ohio (where the seller was located) and made it to a sorting facility in Mount Olive, New Jersey before it disappeared (it was logged into the UPS tracking system as arriving, but it was never logged out of the system). After 3 weeks of frustrating calls with UPS, UPS told me it was lost forever and they were going to stop searching for it. I can't see how a package that large is lost, so I still believe it may have been stolen. If anyone ever happens to see this, please let me know!

[the 'stache]

Oh my God, Tony, that advertisement tin is drool-worthy!

I'm really enjoying this discussion, guys.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by canjond

I think it's extremely unlikely a card would be packaged with the sample pack. It's a neat piece for sure, but there is no evidence to indicate distribution was made with sample packs.

Here is the answer I got from the seller about any overprints.

does the pack have a red overprint date on it? If so what is it?

I will double-check. But I do not believe it does. I also must note, this is a pre-Lorillard Polar Bear pack! When a PB pack even does become available out there, they are 99% always post-ATC deregulation Lorillard packs.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Oh my God, Tony, that advertisement tin is drool-worthy!

I'm really enjoying this discussion, guys.

Thanks Bill. There are actually two different PB tins that can be found. One top lid reads, (Polar Bear Scrap Tobacco) while the other reads (Polar Bear Tobacco). I'm grateful to have found them both.



One could have played poker back in the day with these as well.

[Ribbens]

More information from the seller 419zanzibar69 on his 1909 Polar Bear Tobacco Pouch, interesting exchange related to Polar "pack"

POLAR BEAR Tobacco Packet 1909 UNOPENED 1oz SAMPLE POUCH T206 T205 baseball pack #361460879103 advertised on Ebay.
From:419zanzibar69

.....quote....But one thing I must point out about this pack is it's pre-Lorillard and pre-ATC deregulation of 1911.
I am sorry for not going into greater detail. In 1911, the ATC (American Tobacco Co) was broken up. Shares of the ATC were divided between several brands. Lorillard was one of those brands. So was Philip Morris, Liggett & Myers and RJ Reynolds.

And of course, stamps and legalities could possibly give a potential estimate. I always sold them for the correct T206-T205 era, and nothing more. I hope some of that makes sense. I love this hobby.

Red stamp or not, there is only one true way to find out for sure. Right? I could never, nor anyone else no matter how big of an expert they claim to be, can say for sure what is inside beside 105+ year old tobacco or cigarettes. Unfortunately, as a cigarette and tobacco expert, there is no way for sure to tell. Here are some indications, like whether a pack found from the same carton or case contained premiums. And good chances are anyone who guarantees anything inside really has no idea.