prewar edjamacation please...

[begsu1013]

can anyone school me on how tobacco cards derived their alphabetical prefixes and numerical successors?

w512, t205/6, t70 etc?

[Leon]

Jefferson Burdick came up with the American Card Catalog and in it he gave all of the designations. It's first iteration came out in 1939 and the last edition, while he was alive, was 1960.

[swarmee]

N - Nineteenth Century cards
T - Twentieth Century cards
V/C - Canadian cards
E - Candy series cards
W - Mostly cards issued in strips
R - Gum cards (like Goudey)

[begsu1013]

very cool.

obviously the "t, n" make perfect sense.

any clue as to what the "w" in the strip card means?

edit: and am I wrong to assume the "e" series is for the last syllable in candy? and any 411 on how the numbers are comprised?

[kailes2872]

what was the reason behind the number? For example, I grew up thinking that the 205's were before the 206's

Also - didn't R mean recent? (which is a tad ironic in retrospect)

[spec]

Originally Posted by swarmee

N - Nineteenth Century cards
T - Twentieth Century cards
V/C - Canadian cards
E - Candy series cards
W - Mostly cards issued in strips
R - Gum cards (like Goudey)

Burdick did not use the N prefix for 19th century cards, simply referring to them by number. Burdick's N designation was used for Central and South American cards. The E designation was for Early candy and gum cards, as opposed to R for Recent candy and gum cards. The W category was not short for anything, just a catchall for what he called Album cards.

[IMAXMAX]

I've always been curious about some the numbering used in the ACC---
say, for instance, what happens between M101 and M116, or between N142 and N162?-------is M102-M115 and N143-N161 designated for non-baseball cards or ???

[Sean]

I thought the "T" was for tobacco.

T206: Tobacco, 20th century, set #6.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by Sean

I thought the "T" was for tobacco.

T206: Tobacco, 20th century, set #6.

This would make sense and how I thought it was originally, but didn't the T205's come after the T206's? What about T212's? They wouldn't be 21st century #2 - but it could be 20th century set 12 if they abridged it, I suppose.

[begsu1013]

this is actually quite fascinating!

again, i know absolutely nothing but already love hearing what other's interpretation may be.

interpretation being the key word.


please give your opinion no matter how right or wrong it may be....

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Sean

I thought the "T" was for tobacco.

T206: Tobacco, 20th century, set #6.

I always thought the T was for Tobacco, though I suppose it could stand for Twentieth-century. The heading for that chapter in my copy of the ACC is "20th Century U.S. Tobacco Insert Cards".

But the "20" in T206 definitely does not stand for "20th century". Burdick designated different spans of numbers for different groups of card sets, sometimes leaving gaps in the numbering for newly discovered sets. Within the T cards, T1-T14 were large cards (including T3 Turkey Red basball); T25-T134 were smaller non-sport cards; T175-T182 were anonymous cards issued on Sweet Caporal box flaps; T200-T235 were smaller sports cards; T301-T309 were novelty inserts; T330=T333 were stamps (including T330-2 and T332 baseball stamps); T350-T352 were imitation cigar bands; and T400-T499 were cards from U.S. tobacco companies issued abroad.

[begsu1013]

so "T" is for tobacco or twentieth?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by spec

Burdick did not use the N prefix for 19th century cards, simply referring to them by number. Burdick's N designation was used for Central and South American cards. The E designation was for Early candy and gum cards, as opposed to R for Recent candy and gum cards. The W category was not short for anything, just a catchall for what he called Album cards.

I believe the N designation came from Sugar's, The Sports Collectors Bible, last (4th edition) was 1984. Some other designations came from there too. Then again, we don't know where at least one, and I am sure more, came from. I don't know if these are on the bay now but I would recommend the 4th edition for reading enjoyment. And For anyone that collects pre-war I strongly recommend a copy of the ACC too. They both make invaluable resources.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...Bible&_sacat=0


.

[Steve D]

Jeff Burdick was a card collector, meaning he collected essentially all forms of trade cards. The alphabetical system he devised, is basically as follows:

A = Tobacco Albums
B = Blankets/Rugs
BC = Cloth Items
BF = Felt Items
C = Canadian Tobacco
D = Bakery Inserts
E = Early Candy & Gum
F = Food Inserts
FC = Canadian Food Inserts
G = Banners/Posters/non-insert Albums/Movie Stills/Sheet Music/Calendars/Cigar Band Labels
H = Advertising Issues
J = Soda Cards
K = Coffee Cards
L = Leathers
M = Periodicals
N = Central & South American Tobacco *
P = Tobacco Pins/Buttons
PC = Postcards
PD = Bakery Buttons
PE = Early Candy Pins
PF = Food Buttons
PL = Playing Cards
PR = Recent Gum Pins
PU = Misc Pins
Q = Stereoscope Cards
R = Gum Cards (1930 and after)
S = Silks
SC = Canadian Silks
SN = Central/South American Silks
T = 20 Century U.S. Tobacco
U = Unclassified Issues
V = Canadian Candy Cards
W = Album Cards
Y = Rewards of Merit/Tokens of Affection/Name or Calling Cards/Bible Cards/Scrap Pictures
Z = Paper Dolls

* As indicated, Burdick used the "N" to designate "Central & South American Tobacco Cards". He simply numbered 19th Century U.S. tobacco cards 1 - 693, without a letter designator. Bert Randolph Sugar, when he published the "Sports Collectors Bible" in 1975, added the "N" to Burdick's numbering system to signify 19th Century U.S. tobacco cards.

With what we now know as "N" cards, Burdick numbered each set according to brand, i.e.:

1 - 68 = Allen & Ginter
70 - 157 = Duke
162 - 175 = Goodwin
180 - 206 = Kimball
210 - 246 = Kinney
250 - 277 = Lorillard
280 - 291 = Buchner
295 - 317 = Mayo
321 - 338 = SF Hess
342 - 349 = Thomas Hall

Within each of the above brands, Burdick numbered each set alphabetically, by size. For instance, with Allen & Ginter, 1 - 34 are "normal sized issues, 35 - 44 are "large" cards, and 45 - 54 are photo cards, and 57 - 68 are "Special Issues". There is no set numbered 55 or 56.

For "T" cards, Burdick used T1 - T16 to designate "extra-large cards" or "premiums". and T25 - T177 as general, non-sports issues. He gave general, sports issues numbers between T200 and T235. Unlike the 19th Century issues, Burdick did not number the 20th Century issues within each brand; he simply numbered them alphabetically by title, with some exceptions in higher numbers as new finds were catalogued.

I found the above information in the American Card Catalog (ACC), the book "American Tobacco Cards" by Robert Forbes and Terence Mitchell, and The Sports Collectors Bible by Bert Sugar.

Steve

Edited to show a more detailed list of lettered categories.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Jeff Burdick was a card collector, meaning he collected essentially all forms of trade cards.

...

I found the above information in the American Card Catalog (ACC), the book "American Tobacco Cards" by Robert Forbes and Terence Mitchell, and The Sports Collectors Bible by Bert Sugar.

Steve

This is a very good overview by Steve. Burdick wasn't a "baseball guy", at all. The Forbes/Mitchell non-sport book should be in every collector's library. It has an scholarly review of the tobacco companies and their card issues, plus it's endlessly interesting. You can even get a free PDF copy courtesy of the authors and the non-sports forum. Yeah, I wrote free, bargain hunters

[RaidonCollects]

I believe there are also a few obscure designations:

P - Pins
BF - Felt Novelties (i.e. Pennants)
V - Canadian Candy
FC - Canadian Food? (Not sure)
H - Not sure on these, I can only think of H801-7 when it comes to these, there might be others.
PM - Not sure either on these, I know of PM1, this might represent metallic pins?

Hope this might help,

~Owen

[asphaltman]

I've just always associated the H cards as Clothing/Store cards. But that logic doesn't work if you label the Old Mill cabinets H801-7's as H cards or the H812 Welton Cigar cards. There may be more than that I'm not thinking of as well.