HOF'er George Kelly "game used" bat, legit?

[thenavarro]

I picked this piece up basically on a whim on a message board one day. It is purported to be a George Kelly gamer, but I wanted to check with some of the knowledgeable collectors here and see if the bat is in fact, what it is purported to be. Comes with some paperwork from "Mears", but I don't know their reputation nor do I know of their ability or lack thereof for authenticating game used bats. Why does it say type of bat used by George Kelly if it was a Kelly gamer? Would that be something that someone added later?

[Shoeless Moe]

why do you doubt the paperwork? Troy is among the best in the business.


"The best Jerry, the best!"

[Shoeless Moe]

oooops sorry just re-read that you were unfamiliar with Mears.

Bats are their specialty.

[UnVme7]

I bought a game used George Kelly H&B bat(oddly enough) from Mears auctions a few yrs ago. Came with paperwork and all. I just had a bad feeling about it when I received it. I sent it to Goldin Auctions and PSA labeled it as a Pro Stock. Yep, as you can imagine, I lost money and was extremely upset.

I've mentioned this story before, but I guess what I'm getting at is- I don't blame you for questioning it regardless.

[Shoeless Moe]

second opinions never hurt!

[yanks12025]

Pretty sure you bought that off me years ago?? I know I used to own it at one time. But with zinn beck bats you can never know 100%. They have been documented as being used by players but it's not like hillerich & bradsby where they have shipping records.

Also mears does make mistakes/labels bats what they might not be. Like in their last auction I bought a hillerich & bradsby bat stamped with Chester Club and it had the last name Dugan stamped on the barrel and knob. They attributed it to Joe Dugan. Not really sure how it can be attributed to Joe Dugan considering it was made before he played and why would he use a bat with chester club stamped on it.

They also had a bat attributed to being used by either Rick Farrell or his brother. Again not sure how they could connect it to those two players because the bat just had the last name Farrell stamped on it and during that time their were several minor league players with the same last name.

[KrenBats]

There are several Kren bats that they have made mistakes on as well. Kren's are similar to Zinn Beck bats as you can never know 100%.

[Wildfireschulte]

My read on the Mear's authentication is that Troy saying that the bat is legitimately old (as opposed to being made in someone's garage yesterday) and was used in a game by someone and that it has Kelly's name on it. They are not certifying that Kelly ever used it in a professional game if ever.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by Wildfireschulte

My read on the Mear's authentication is that Troy saying that the bat is legitimately old (as opposed to being made in someone's garage yesterday) and was used in a game by someone and that it has Kelly's name on it. They are not certifying that Kelly ever used it in a professional game if ever.

If that's the case they should be a heck of a lot clearer IMO in their description.

Especially when they are the auctioneer.

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/lot-68123.aspx

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by Wildfireschulte

My read on the Mear's authentication is that Troy saying that the bat is legitimately old (as opposed to being made in someone's garage yesterday) and was used in a game by someone and that it has Kelly's name on it. They are not certifying that Kelly ever used it in a professional game if ever.

That's correct. I guess MEARS assumes people understand their game used bat grading scale of 1 - 10. See link:

http://www.mearsonline.com/index.php...ation-criteria

"Authentic" just means it's from 1924-1930 and wasn't made yesterday. That's why the "LOA" just describes what can be plainly seen just by looking at the bat. To the novice who don't understand game used bat authentication it does read like it is a Kelly gamer.

[Wildfireschulte]

If you ask Troy, he'll say he is being extra careful to be crystal clear, but to a novice, it is understandably confusing. Either way, you have to love Zinn-Beck bats whenever you can get one.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by thenavarro

If that's the case they should be a heck of a lot clearer IMO in their description.

Especially when they are the auctioneer.

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/lot-68123.aspx

They are saying that it has the characteristics of a pro model bat and that it nothing prevents it from having been used by the player whose name is on it. We know that some of these bats found their way into the hands of hands of the players' whose names are on them. There is a photo of Groh using a similar bat with Groh's name engraved where this bat has Kelly's name. Or is there evidence that Diamond Ace 100's were sold either to the public or to other pro players by special order?

Also, MEARS sometimes sell bats that they don't seem to have subjected to the full analysis, with all the paper work. I wonder if these bats are sometimes called "authentic" because no one has paid them to be more specific.

[earlywynnfan]

As I've understood it, the Diamond Ace 100's are thought to be pro model bats. However, this bat, if I remember correctly, didn't match the size bats he was known to use during this era. I was watching the original auction, but passed.

Ken

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

As I've understood it, the Diamond Ace 100's are thought to be pro model bats. However, this bat, if I remember correctly, didn't match the size bats he was known to use during this era. I was watching the original auction, but passed.

Ken

Not sure what you were looking at but pretty sure he ordered 35 inch bats a lot during his career.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

As I've understood it, the Diamond Ace 100's are thought to be pro model bats. However, this bat, if I remember correctly, didn't match the size bats he was known to use during this era. I was watching the original auction, but passed.

Ken

Was it the length? I don't see how the weight can be a factor since there's an 18" piece missing from the back. We don't know the weight, except that it must be at least in the high 30's.

[John V]

There seems to be pretty good evidence that 100s were sold to the public in sizes 33" thru 36".

[Mark]

Originally Posted by John V

There seems to be pretty good evidence that 100s were sold to the public in sizes 33" thru 36".

Interesting. Do you recall where you discovered this? Also, what about those that are stamped EXTRA SPECIAL?

[John V]

Originally Posted by Mark

Interesting. Do you recall where you discovered this? Also, what about those that are stamped EXTRA SPECIAL?

Living here in SC, I enjoy on again, off again research on Zinn Beck.
From what I've seen, Extra Specials were also sold to the public. They were considered finer quality, darker in color, bone-rubbed, going through a more labor intensive manufacturing process.

[thenavarro]

Thanks everyone for the insight. After all of that, this bat doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. Anyone that wants to buy it for the same price it sold at Mears auction $164 plus shipping, just shoot me a message. To be clear, I make NO representations whatsoever that this bat was ever even in the same vicinity of Kelly much less used by him.