1893 Just So Advertising Poster

[bcbgcbrcb]

In the upcoming Legendary Auction during June. I guess this puts an end to the speculation towards what other undiscovered Just So cards might be out there.

[Mountaineer]

Quick question since I've been out of the hobby lately.

Was there a new tobacco based set of cards discovered recently that came from the "Just So" tobacco packages? I've never heard of Just So tobacco.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Dustin:

Not new but they are extremely rare. In a typical year, it would not be unusual to see a total of two or three examples from this set come up in major auctions, that's about it. Key HOF'ers are Cy Young, Jesse Burkett, John Clarkson & recently discovered Buck Ewing, a couple of years ago. One other note, HOF'er, George Davis was traded from Cleveland to New York during February of 1893. Depending on how early in the season the cards were produced he could have been issued although the card is not known and I don't see him on the poster, difficult to tell for sure though since one image is almost totally obliterated.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Dustin:

Not new but they are extremely rare. In a typical year, it would not be unusual to see a total of two or three examples from this set come up in major auctions, that's about it. Key HOF'ers are Cy Young, Jesse Burkett, John Clarkson & recently discovered Buck Ewing, a couple of years ago. One other note, HOF'er, George Davis was traded from Cleveland to New York during February of 1893. Depending on how early in the season the cards were produced he could have been issued although the card is not known and I don't see him on the poster, difficult to tell for sure though since one image is almost totally obliterated.

thank you so much for the explanation. So I'm guessing these tobacco cards were just based out of Cleveland and were not country-wide?

I also just learned Burkett was born and raised in WV so that's pretty awesome!

[bcbgcbrcb]

Yup, the set was strictly in the Cleveland area and featured only Cleveland Spiders players. The one known example to exist of Burkett was unfortunately restored by taking the Burkett photo portion of the card and mounting it onto an actress card, which severely detracts from its value.

Also to note, the Burkett & Young cards are considered to be rookie cards, with only one known example of each making them impossible to collect. When I was doing the BB HOF RC collection for 10 years and reached about 85% complete, these were two of the ones that I never was able to acquire. The restored Burkett did come up for auction once, think it sold for around $12K which, in hindsight, maybe I should have bought it then if I could have afforded it at the time. Never had a chance at the Young, don't think that one has been offered publically in over 10 years, likely a six-figure card IMHO.

[wonkaticket]

As a collector of advertising banners. I'm not sure what to make of this.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Exc...LOT170727.aspx

"As of this printing the piece resides at a respected conservation company where they are applying initial treatment steps necessary to stabilize and preserve the historic artifact. This includes what the conservationist defines as "Structural treatment" (e.g. clean, deacidify and repair tears to the paper) which in our opinion are the minimum steps necessary ensure this 120+ year old collectible can be enjoyed for another century. The approximate cost of this treatment $3,000 will be added to the invoice of the winning bidder so please bid accordingly. Before bidding begins we will 1) the current photo, 2) a detailed report from the conservator of what work was performed along with a detailed condition report and 3) a report on a proposed "Cosmetic treatment" at the end of this first phase. This way the ultimate owner will determine if they want to apply these additional cosmetic steps in order to bring it closer to its former glory."

On one hand great that it's being preserved and stabilized. On the other hand as a bidder I would like to reserve the right to decide for myself should I win, the steps and company I would prefer to preserve/restore. Also to just pass the bill to the winner is odd.

This isn't grading fees from a TPG. There are a multitude of companies that do this kind of work some may be cheaper, some may better. Again something I think would be better left to the new owner to decide, not the AH.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

As a collector of advertising banners. I'm not sure what to make of this.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Exc...LOT170727.aspx

"As of this printing the piece resides at a respected conservation company where they are applying initial treatment steps necessary to stabilize and preserve the historic artifact. This includes what the conservationist defines as "Structural treatment" (e.g. clean, deacidify and repair tears to the paper) which in our opinion are the minimum steps necessary ensure this 120+ year old collectible can be enjoyed for another century. The approximate cost of this treatment $3,000 will be added to the invoice of the winning bidder so please bid accordingly. Before bidding begins we will 1) the current photo, 2) a detailed report from the conservator of what work was performed along with a detailed condition report and 3) a report on a proposed "Cosmetic treatment" at the end of this first phase. This way the ultimate owner will determine if they want to apply these additional cosmetic steps in order to bring it closer to its former glory."

On one hand great that it's being preserved and stabilized. On the other hand as a bidder I would like to reserve the right to decide for myself should I win, the steps and company I would prefer to preserve/restore. Also to just pass the bill to the winner is odd.

This isn't grading fees from a TPG. There are a multitude of companies that do this kind of work some may be cheaper, some may better. Again something I think would be better left to the new owner to decide, not the AH.

While I agree in theory, this particular item looks as though it may just be too brittle to ship anywhere as is. It is entirely possible that the AH feels that stabalization is absolutely necessary prior to shipment of the item, and that they do not want to be responsible for shipping it as is.

In this instance I can see why what they ar doing is reasonable as long as it is fully disclosed, which it is.

Tom C

[wonkaticket]

Tom, agree if that was the case however from first hand knowledge you could ship this with no issues I've had far worse and more brittle banners shipped. Plus I would assume they had to ship it to a conservator.

[autograf]

It's odd and I wouldn't disagree with Wonka.....he has more banners than a frat house during rush week............

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by autograf

It's odd and I wouldn't disagree with Wonka.....he has more banners than a frat house during rush week............

LOL, Tom but the Frat house would have better parties and more women so I'm not sure I'm on the right side of this one.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

LOL, Tom but the Frat house would have better parties and more women so I'm not sure I'm on the right side of this one.

Tom C

[barrysloate]

This poster desperately needs conservation, and the steps they are taking are not optional but mandatory. That said, John is correct that collectors often have a favorite conservator they would likely use. And as far as passing the $3000 cost on to the winning bidder, wouldn't the conservation work add some value to it, making it likely the lot would sell for considerably more than before the work was done? If it were me I would sell it as is. And it goes without question the winning bidder will put the extra money into it.

This is one of those pieces that is extremely rare and important, but in desperate need of conservation. Curious to see what it sells for.

[nolemmings]

One other note, HOF'er, George Davis was traded from Cleveland to New York during February of 1893. Depending on how early in the season the cards were produced he could have been issued although the card is not known and I don't see him on the poster, difficult to tell for sure though since one image is almost totally obliterated.

Phil, this poster was discussed awhile back, and the players identified--Davis is not on the poster, and since he was traded FOR Ewing, who does appear, it's very unlikely he will surface as part of the set, unless there was another printing before the trade, which itself was before the season.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=mcaleer

As for the restoration, I agree with what was said, and it also seems odd to me that the restoration was not completed before the item was placed in the catalog. If you're going to require the buyer to pay for it anyway, why not have the finished product on display, which presumably will look nicer and thus likely draw additional bids?

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Phil, this poster was discussed awhile back, and the players identified--Davis is not on the poster, and since he was traded FOR Ewing, who does appear, it's very unlikely he will surface as part of the set, unless there was another printing before the trade, which itself was before the season.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=mcaleer

As for the restoration, I agree with what was said, and it also seems odd to me that the restoration was not completed before the item was placed in the catalog. If you're going to require the buyer to pay for it anyway, why not have the finished product on display, which presumably will look nicer and thus likely draw additional bids?

If you look at the rest of the auction, I don't know that Legendary could afford to not get it included as soon as possible. A very thin offering compared to their heyday...

[1880nonsports]

was clearly poorly thought out and cumbersome. I'm thinking it might be the result of a listing ship without it's principals/principles powering the journey :-).
Cleaning and deacidification is about preservation while conservation and cosmetic work reflects a desire to improve the perception of an item. If legendary bought the piece or has it on consignment and is following the consignor's desires - it's their right to do as they please. The process should be noted in a "report" and pictures taken of the item's original condition and any seminal applications or remediation.
Of course as expressed earlier in the thread - this should have been done before the fact or not at all. It's possible that they were under pressures we are not privy to - as based on current events and the overall decline of Legendary's offerings - I am thinking the entity might be running it's last auction............

[Leon]

They should have either sold as is or done the conservation, shown exactly what was done, with before and after pictures, and not charge the fee for whatever they are having done, imo. They shouldn't be charging for what they perceive is best...