Stolen pre-war collection in VT? (Link to a thread at BO)

[jandr272]

I think I might be breaking a rule linking to a thread at a different forum, but I figured this might be an exception. Nothing useful has been said yet, so there are no specifics beyond 'everything important pre-war plus a Ruth signed ball' but figured better safe than sorry when it comes to spreading the word.

Huge Vintage Collection Stolen in VT

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

That sucks

[Leon]

Here is some more info that I received from REA to distribute...Thanks REA!!


-----Original Message-----
From: Hemond, Michael G. [mailto:mhemond@bpdvt.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:11 PM
..
Subject: Police Notification - Possible Incoming Items

Good afternoon,
Please find attached a notification and supporting documents regarding items that may be offered or presented to your agents for appraisal, grading or sale in the future. The items are notable and originate in the Burlington, VT area having been stolen in the course of a residential burglary earlier this month. Of specific note, the baseball is a 1928 Murderers Row signed ball with Ruth's signature obtained and dated separately in 1930. The attached images are likeness-only as the collector did not individually catalog his collection; a separate group photograph is available upon request.

Det. Hemond
Burlington Police




.

[calvindog]

$30,000 reward offered but the collection wasn't catalogued or scanned even for insurance purposes. Crazy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

$30,000 reward offered but the collection wasn't catalogued or scanned even for insurance purposes. Crazy.

Imagine the letter to the judge if it had been consigned to Mastro in the day.

[egbeachley]

This is totally ridiculous. He knows it's valued at $300,000, they are all pre-1933, mostly near-mint, and yet no pictures or even an inventory listing. I'm calling BS on this one. Probably fakes if they even existed. Insurance fraud anyone?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

This is totally ridiculous. He knows it's valued at $300,000, they are all pre-1933, mostly near-mint, and yet no pictures or even an inventory listing. I'm calling BS on this one. Probably fakes if they even existed. Insurance fraud anyone?

Well, if he has insurance he would have to keep some kind of inventory of the cards and some proof he bought them.

[chipperhank44]

How you do not have pictures of a 300K collection is beyond me. But perhaps someone found out that this guy had no pictures, a completely raw collection, and saw it as a golden opportunity.

This should serve as a reminder to all of us. If you expect insurance money or a decent chance at recovery you need pictures. And possibly also a reminder to be careful who you tell about your collection and its value.

[Fred]

Just out of curiosity, were Lionel Carter's cards cataloged and photo documented? Were any of his cards graded before the theft?

I bet there are a few collections out there owned by older collectors that are not tech savvy and these collectors just never thought about insuring or otherwise inventorying the cards. I know that sounds unrealistic in today's world, but I'm going to guess it's not totally unusual.

How many of you have a full photodocumented inventory, or even close to a fully documented inventory complete? How many of you have the slab numbers of all the cards you own? Just curious.

[rhettyeakley]

So what exactly are people even supposed to be on the lookout for other than a "Murderers Row" baseball? How would we even know we were looking at said collection?

I can understand not having photos or a typed inventory but you gotta give us more than there were "a bunch ($300K is a LOT) of old baseball cards stolen"? Which sets, mostly T's, E's or R's. Any extreme rarities/unique cards that if they show up would really help to point to this particular collection. Seems strange but hopefully if they were stolen they eventually find their rightful home.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

So what exactly are people even supposed to be on the lookout for other than a "Murderers Row" baseball? How would we even know we were looking at said collection?

I can understand not having photos or a typed inventory but you gotta give us more than there were "a bunch ($300K is a LOT) of old baseball cards stolen"? Which sets, mostly T's, E's or R's. Any extreme rarities/unique cards that if they show up would really help to point to this particular collection. Seems strange but hopefully if they were stolen they eventually find their rightful home.

This has been bothering me too. Surely, this guy has a few other items with distinguishing characteristics.

[Leon]

Does any serious collector, or longtime collector on this board, not have a list of what they have?

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Leon

Does any serious collector, or longtime collector on this board, not have a list of what they have?

More than you would think.

As in most area's of life, people only act after an event such as this has happened, not before. Like getting a burglar alarm after you have been robbed. Never thought you would need one before, much like needing a list of cards you assembled over a lifetime. Guys like the old timers, simply amassed vast numbers of cards, tucked them away and never gave much thought to anything else.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sb1

More than you would think.

As in most area's of life, people only act after an event such as this has happened, not before. Like getting a burglar alarm after you have been robbed. Never thought you would need one before, much like needing a list of cards you assembled over a lifetime. Guys like the old timers, simply amassed vast numbers of cards, tucked them away and never gave much thought to anything else.

I have thousands of cards and there is no way to know what I have, to every last card (just like the strip card I just showed in that thread), without a list. But i hear ya and you are probably right.

[atx840]

Odd story. I'd think anyone with that valuable of a collection would have some method to track them.

Two pages from Lionel Carters T206s.

[sb1]

More appropriately most collectors like Carter only keep a "want list", once they have it, it gets marked off. No need for a list of what you have, you already have it, to them such a list was not needed.

[ullmandds]

I don't think it's unusual for "older" collectors...who most likely amassed their collections decades ago...to have images of all of them?
Maybe not the smartest thing...but not unusual?!

[1952boyntoncollector]

if you know how much you cards are worth and claim $300,000...you would think you would have proof ...i know insurance companies would want that

if you just collect for fun and would never think about selling them or giving them any monetary value then yeah i can understand not having any type of list..but i can also understand why they wont recover anything if stolen as well.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I don't think it's unusual for "older" collectors...who most likely amassed their collections decades ago...to have images of all of them?
Maybe not the smartest thing...but not unusual?!

I agree. I started collection on the early 60's and never had even a partial inventory. Now that I sell and mainly buy online I see the importance of pics and scans.

[ullmandds]

This story is definitely a bit "odd" to me...in regards to the details and estimated values...but the fact the owner did not have an inventory or pics is NOT odd to me at all. Additionally the declaration that all cards are nmt-mt...is also not entirely true by todays standards.

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by sb1

More than you would think.

As in most area's of life, people only act after an event such as this has happened, not before. Like getting a burglar alarm after you have been robbed. Never thought you would need one before, much like needing a list of cards you assembled over a lifetime. Guys like the old timers, simply amassed vast numbers of cards, tucked them away and never gave much thought to anything else.

Totally agree.. and I work for an Alarm company as a technician I see this over and over.. One thing my father who had a nice collection himself told me over and over to NEVER tell anyone what ya got. To me that includes uploading any pictures on any open forums.. Never will, sorry..

[mark evans]

Every collector's worst nightmare. Even if insured to the hilt and provable, still a horrible experience.

[LincolnVT]

Yeah, I agree.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that a fellow collector has lost their collection! This string is a call for help; not meant to be a debate about what the collection was worth, if it was insured, or if the cards were NM. As a fellow collector and a Vermonter, I will do whatever I can to keep my eye out for this missing collection.

Ethan

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by LincolnVT

Yeah, I agree.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that a fellow collector has lost their collection! This string is a call for help; not meant to be a debate about what the collection was worth, if it was insured, or if the cards were NM. As a fellow collector and a Vermonter, I will do whatever I can to keep my eye out for this missing collection.

Ethan

I agree this is a nightmare situation...but...this is a message board...that's what we do here?

[Brian Van Horn]

I feel for the collector. This is why I keep my collection in the bank.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I agree this is a nightmare situation...but...this is a message board...that's what we do here?

We're basically told to look out for some common, ungraded cards with no specific identifying characteristics. I'm on it.

[vthobby]

I'd like to clear up some confusion that I see in this thread:

#1 The cards were NOT reported by the victim to be NM or NM/MT. The official police report says "good to new condition". That is a LARGE range as we all know.

#2 It is likely that the victim did NOT have insurance so all you "insurance scam" folks can settle down.

#3 The gentleman was known to have shown his collection to many in his neighborhood (he was proud of it) and had folks in and out of his house that have seen the collection. I myself never heard of the guy and only can think that he was strictly old school and was very proud to have amassed such a collection and was INCREDIBLY trustworthy (unfortunately). I am not so trusting and this case shows us why.

#4 There is currently a REAL $30,000 reward for the collection or the bulk of it.

#5 The debate about him not having a list, photos, or proof just shows me that some of you have not been around this hobby long enough to remember that it once was a "cheap" hobby and fairly crime free. Times have changed but for this guy, he still lived in that world. Remember the Captain of the Titanic who never had a shipwreck and was at the helm of the unsinkable Titanic? I liken it to this gentleman. He had a collection that he owned for over 50 years so his "cost" was minimal. He had never had any problems showcasing or talking about his collection..........and then the iceberg hit!

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Tragic.

All of the above info was obtained by me personally in a direct meeting with the Burlington Police on this case.

peace, mike

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We're basically told to look out for some common, ungraded cards with no specific identifying characteristics. I'm on it.

Me too Jeff. If anyone sees some old baseball cards being sold please report them to the VT police dept. for your 30k reward.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by atx840

Odd story. I'd think anyone with that valuable of a collection would have some method to track them.

Two pages from Lionel Carters T206s.

Thanks for posting this!

I own the Barry.

Now I have before & after photos.


Jantz