A huge collection of bogus autographs for sale

[RichardSimon]

A few days ago I received this e mail, sent off my website.

"offer of items = I have a large number of signed index cards that I wish to sell. Multiples of all (if interested I can total each celebrity). Lennon, McCartney, Starr, Pie Traynor, Munson,Presley, Reggie Jackson, Alston, Yawkey,J Robinson, O`Malley,Greenburg, Gomez, Pistol Pete Maravitch,D Dean, Hodges, Stengel, Pluckett, Paige,Leonard, etc. Pile stands 4 plus inches.
Plus, I have many signed paper cuts as well."


I asked this seller (located in upstate NY) for a full list and quantities (I was then going to ask for pics) but received a return e mail which said he would send me the entire collection for my offer.
Well in all my years of buying and selling I have had, on occasion, a seller who will send out his items for approval. I have never had someone try to fake me out on a collection of this size. I realized the possibility existed that it could be fake stuff but I did think that this collection was real.
Today the collection arrived.
All the illustrated ones are in quantities and there are many other names which were in this collection.
The quantity and variety here is mind boggling. This guy must have spent many, many hours with this.
See for yourself.

[tazdmb]

This is laughable, did his child "sign" those autographs.

[khw]

hey how much for the thorpe i need it

[gregr2]

WOW!!

or as Shelly would say " "

[gnaz01]

Who is Lonny Liston??

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by khw

hey how much for the thorpe i need it

Make me an offer

[RichardSimon]

My reaction to this was obvious but to me the stupidest ones are Tom Yawkey on a gold HOF plak and Jimmy Collins (about a dozen of those in this collection).

[Mr. Zipper]

I love the index cards all scanned next to each other... the further amplify the fact they were all signed by the same hand.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Who is Lonny Liston??

The "Brunch" Rickey is my favorite.

[djson1]

This is great stuff!
But I need closure on this story. So, what happened?

So, it wasn't too clear...did he send it to you for your pre-approval? Who pays for shipping? haha

[shelly]

Richard, do you think the guy really belived they where authentic

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by shelly

Richard, do you think the guy really belived they where authentic

No comment .

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by djson1

This is great stuff!
But I need closure on this story. So, what happened?

So, it wasn't too clear...did he send it to you for your pre-approval? Who pays for shipping? haha

Yes, he sent them to me for my offer. I will be returning them as soon as he takes care of the return shipping.

[tazdmb]

Maybe you/the seller can get Guinness to certify it

[bat_master]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOE-DI-MAGGI...item3a9465add9

Just saw this one on ebay. I'm more of a bat guy than anything, but the similarities of the 'J' between the Jackie Robinson posted in this thread and the 'J' in the Joe of the ebay listing are really too close to not make mention.

Same person signed both?

[packs]

How big of a magnifying glass did you use to inspect the signatures? Size matters.

[GrayGhost]

This has to be a fake story/photos. NOBODY can in any conscience sell crap like that and expect someone to buy it

[Michael B]

Love the 'Cohn' Wayne, 'Herl Binnock' and all of the others in the same identical black ball point pen. And all at the same thickness. Amazing, just amazing. Was that 'Cleminte' copied from an early baseball card?

I think we may have a consensus on the Mantle and Williams signed plaques. At least I hope so......

Richard, I want to reserve several Thorpe signatures and as many Maravich signatures as you have, but they must have his last name.

[jgmp123]

Why has anyone pointed out how stellar the "M's" are on the Mantle.... It's a thing of beauty!

[djson1]

Originally Posted by bat_master

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOE-DI-MAGGI...item3a9465add9

Just saw this one on ebay. I'm more of a bat guy than anything, but the similarities of the 'J' between the Jackie Robinson posted in this thread and the 'J' in the Joe of the ebay listing are really too close to not make mention.

Same person signed both?

This seller on Ebay (marthadario0510) is selling the most obvious fake crap. I just took a look at some of his past offerings (via the feedback profile) and most of it...if not all...is horrible. Ebay needs to yank this seller.

[ooo-ribay]

He did OK on the six letters in "Mel Ott"

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Love the 'Cohn' Wayne, 'Herl Binnock' and all of the others in the same identical black ball point pen. And all at the same thickness. Amazing, just amazing. Was that 'Cleminte' copied from an early baseball card?

I think we may have a consensus on the Mantle and Williams signed plaques. At least I hope so......

Richard, I want to reserve several Thorpe signatures and as many Maravich signatures as you have, but they must have his last name.

I do have quantities of Thorpe and Maravich but these autographs are prime so top dollar will be asked .

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by djson1

This seller on Ebay (marthadario0510) is selling the most obvious fake crap. I just took a look at some of his past offerings (via the feedback profile) and most of it...if not all...is horrible. Ebay needs to yank this seller.

The EMR team (which did report fakes) was disbanded by ebay and the only other hope we had was John Gonzalez who resigned from ebay.
As far as I know there is no way to get bogus crap removed now.
The scum will have a field day now.

[Maddog]

You have to laugh at the fact that this moron sent these items to Rich
having to know his rep.

I could see sending them to someone like me, but RICH????

Hey Jim watch out, I think these are heading your way next

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Maddog

You have to laugh at the fact that this moron sent these items to Rich
having to know his rep.

I could see sending them to someone like me, but RICH????

Hey Jim watch out, I think these are heading your way next

Maybe the would-be seller can save himself some postage and just have Rich forward them directly to Jim?

[Runscott]

I don't know why Richard posted these images. While some look 'suspect', who are we to judge - it is just our opinion. Richard should be sending these to PSA or JSA before posting them here where non-professionals will unfairly berate the owner. Who knows? Maybe they will turn out to be 'real'?

See, I AM listening to my critics.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I don't know why Richard posted these images. While some look 'suspect', who are we to judge - it is just our opinion. Richard should be sending these to PSA or JSA before posting them here where non-professionals will unfairly berate the owner. Who knows? Maybe they will turn out to be 'real'?

See, I AM listening to my critics.

Touché. I am no critic of you, but I agree. Perhaps they should be sent to the 'Opinionators' to get slabbed. Mel Ott and Arky Vaughan in circa 2000's black ballpoint ink must be genuine.....

[7nohitter]

Just looked at the ebay link and the item location is BOSTON....Richard, there must've been a return address on the items sent to you, was it Boston?

[btcarfagno]

Let me know if there are any Bob Feller.

Might be worth more than the real thing.

Tom C

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Just looked at the ebay link and the item location is BOSTON....Richard, there must've been a return address on the items sent to you, was it Boston?

They did not come from Boston, they came from NYS.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

They did not come from Boston, they came from NYS.

Thanks!

[RTK]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

This is laughable, did his child "sign" those autographs.

That's exactly what I thought and I know nothing about authenticating signatures.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RTK

That's exactly what I thought and I know nothing about authenticating signatures.

Which should be an education for some of us. The forger was at least looking at real signatures and trying to copy them - Ott and Robinson, for instance. Other than that, it's obvious they are fakes, due partially to their general appearance - modern items, blue ball-point pen, etc.

On the other hand, the 'Lefty Grove' piece fooled all the initial responders, even thought there was almost zero attempt by the forger to copy genuine signatures. It did so because the forger concentrated on making the piece look old.

[sycks22]

That Clemente auto is one of a kind, you should've jumped on that

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Maybe the would-be seller can save himself some postage and just have Rich forward them directly to Jim?

How about forward them directly to the trash can. Makes sense to me.

[w7imel]

he forgot to add this maris to it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231296440408?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url]

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Runscott

..... The forger was at least looking at real signatures and trying to copy them ..........

Where would the forgery business be without exemplars?

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Where would the forgery business be without exemplars?

The Clemente is a scream. I think it was copied from a Topps card, possibly the 1971 (I don't have them in front of me currently).

One thing to remember about exemplars, never bank on comparing signatures to just one, reliably authenticated or not.

There are plenty of autograph guide books published with faux exemplars, either unknowingly or done intentionally as a spike (to protect against plagiarism), and the professional services make enough errors to assure comparison to any one exemplar daunting, to say the least.

Exemplars should be used as an overview, and the more professionally graded ones you look at for comparison, the better the chance of referencing good ones and throwing out the bad, if you just pick one to study.

Also, examining scans of signed pieces, no matter how detailed, are sometimes an inadequate endeavor, authenticating in person, the first step being examining the piece for anachronism (wrong manufacturing date for the lifetime of the signer) sometimes ruling out even moving on to consider the signature itself.

[Stanesq]

I would photograph and copy to aid law enforcement in this. At the end of the day forgery is a crime. Using the US mail to send these items is also a crime.

The US ATTORNEYS OFFICE IS VERY INTERESTED IN THESE CASES.


http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x59...ay-fraud/print

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by w7imel

he forgot to add this maris to it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231296440408?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url]

Don't be shy, the Cobb in that ad sucks too.

[w7imel]

yes the cobb sucks really bad! there is no flow to it, almost shaky. I sent him a polite email asking him if he was really going to sell that as authentic. Go figure no reply. Someone going to be taken, but bidding only up to 16 bucks so it wont hurt too bad until they pay a real TPA. Thats when the pain might set in.

[Klrdds]

In reference to the ebay Cobb listing .Is that AMA ( Academy of Manuscript and Autograph library ) a real thing ?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by w7imel

he forgot to add this maris to it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231296440408?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url]

http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...hed-cut-signat

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Stanesq

I would photograph and copy to aid law enforcement in this. At the end of the day forgery is a crime. Using the US mail to send these items is also a crime.

The US ATTORNEYS OFFICE IS VERY INTERESTED IN THESE CASES.


http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/x59...ay-fraud/print

Really, Richard, Chris and I handed the FBI an open and shut case. Five years latter they are still in business and have sold over 25 million worth of garbage. It is a total joke. The FBI just sucks.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by shelly

Really, Richard, Chris and I handed the FBI an open and shut case. Five years latter they are still in business and have sold over 25 million worth of garbage. It is a total joke. The FBI just sucks.

Absolutely, Shelly.

Extremely disappointing.

[w7imel]

The real problem is they can say " In my opinion it is authentic" Genuine or not in a court of law it was "there opinion". The problem is convincing a jury who 95 percent of them have never owned an autographed item and if they did just assumed it was authentic because the have a piece of paper telling them so. As sad as it may sound we are on are own to fight thru this problem. It is great we can work together to make sure we all buy the right stuff. Sad to say the general public could care less if what the have is real or not. All they care about is getting a autograph that looks close at the cheapest price they can find...doesnt matter if its real or not as long as they have a crappy "LOA" from A.M.A they feel good about it i suppose.

[shelly]

This is not an opinion. This was autographs that the FBI lab found to be on photo paper from yesterday with signitures of guys that had died twenty years ago or more. This was handed to them on a silver plater.
This is about thousands of military people that bought bougus items through there own PX. Forget the certs we know those guys will never go to jail. We are talking out and out Crap. The FBI knows it and has done nothing. They have allowed 25 million dollars of garbage to be sold in the last five years. The FBI is know the forger's best friend.
I know the FBI reads this web site every day. Why are you not doing your job. Your crime lab in Arizona will tell you that what I am saying is fact.When Tim Fitzsimmons retired so did you.
You shut down one place for a few months now there back up and laughing at you.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by shelly

This is not an opinion. This was autographs that the FBI lab found to be on photo paper from yesterday with signitures of guys that had died twenty years ago or more. This was handed to them on a silver plater.
This is about thousands of military people that bought bougus items through there own PX. Forget the certs we know those guys will never go to jail. We are talking out and out Crap. The FBI knows it and has done nothing. They have allowed 25 million dollars of garbage to be sold in the last five years. The FBI is know the forger's best friend.
I know the FBI reads this web site every day. Why are you not doing your job. Your crime lab in Arizona will tell you that what I am saying is fact.When Tim Fitzsimmons retired so did you.
You shut down one place for a few months now there back up and laughing at you.

Ditto!!!

Steve Rocchi has been certing that crap since Sept. 2011.

Steve Rocchi must be proud of himself to be thought of in the same circles as Chris Morales, Drew Max and Ted Taylor.

The crap he's been certing has nothing to do with an "opinion."

I own some of the hard evidence and one day I will show it on YouTube.

[RichardSimon]

Personally, I do not have faith in any entity now.
Government or commercial.
It just seems like nobody cares any longer.
This is not news to the bottom feeders.
Once in a while you may read a story about how someone got busted. In the overall picture that means very little.
Most of these bottom feeding scum are running free now.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Personally, I do not have faith in any entity now.
Government or commercial.
It just seems like nobody cares any longer.
This is not news to the bottom feeders.
Once in a while you may read a story about how someone got busted. In the overall picture that means very little.
Most of these bottom feeding scum are running free now.

+1

Appropriately and perfectly stated.

There's bigger fish to fry now. Us!