1888 R&S Giant Relief Set of Football Die Cuts

[walnutts]

Has anyone ever seen a single one of the Die Cuts in the uncut sheet we recently bought? Am trying to figure out if these are actually the very first Set of American Football "Cards" every issued. The were made at the same time as the R&S Artistic Baseball Die Cuts by Raphael Tuck and Son (1888) and would predate the 1894 Mayo Set by 6 years. The Baseball Die Cuts are considered "Baseball Cards" so why wouldn't this Football set also be considered a Card Set? Thanks for your input here.

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Presently listed on eBay at unreserved auction:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331217826220

[Leon]

Good luck Walnutts. Thanks for your understanding about "where" to post in the future. Great looking items!!

and since this is a baseball forum I will post a similar baseball related item, acquired for resale at the last National, now firmly residing in my collection

[drcy]

They're scraps or Victorian scraps, which I consider its own genre. Scraps meaning litho die cuts, and not the misprint trading card rejects.

They were commercially sold and collected (pasted into albums), so they're close to cards and so included in the general trading card category (along with Piedmont Stamps and Tobacco Silks). I agree they're closer to a trading card than a Sweet Caporal pin.

What is a trading card is a neverending debate on this board, and I won't pretend to offer the final, set in stone answer in this post. Just my opinion. I'm sure many consider scraps trading cards, and, at the least, they are darned close.

[andybecker]

very cool pieces, good luck with the sale.

to me, they speak rugby.....not American football.

"going for a try" is a rugby phrase, I believe.

[autograf]

Definitely rugby.....

[walnutts]

Just my opinion but don't think they are rugby but maybe.

[drcy]

I don't know the differences between the early games, but it literally says 'football' on the tab

[walnutts]

Originally Posted by Leon

Good luck Walnutts. Thanks for your understanding about "where" to post in the future. Great looking items!!

and since this is a baseball forum I will post a similar baseball related item, acquired for resale at the last National, now firmly residing in my collection

Leon - there is a wonderful matching Trolley Die Cut that has an advertisement for "Barnum's Circus" rather than the Baseball Game - would be a great companion piece to yours!!

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[1880nonsports]

1) 100% rugby. "going for a try" and the drop references are easy clues.
2) in the paper hobby - scraps are just that. I suppose they might be thought of as under a few different umberellas - most predominately trade cards although that really isn't it the right category as they weren't distributed as such nor do they have the requisite identifiers or elements including a product. Ephemera doesn't really cut it either as they were produced to be placed into scrapbooks - ostensibly to survive into the future which would be contrary to the definition. They wren't inserts and contain no advertising. The "what is a card" debate has no possible final conclusion.
BTW - any chance this came out of the scrapbook recently at REA auction? Really upset I didn't continue bidding - ait was a fantastic piece for the archivest. I would have kept it as is so I'm hoping it came from somewhere else :-)

edited to note that there is at least one variation of the "going to the Polo Grounds" huge die-cut.

[autograf]

The only thing that gives me a little pause is that the colors are IVy League colors.....I'm sure they had rugby teams at the same time though......

[walnutts]

Did come from REA but the Catalog was incomplete and most of the pages that were present were loose and some where half pages.

[1880nonsports]

(side by side as opposed to top and bottom) add to that the rugby terms and the fact they were a London company - I think I hear a duck! They did have branches in the US after 1895 - no expert so hard to pin down a date of issue without more research, and american football WAS begining to show up depicted in various forms of ephemera in the 1880's. Just don't think this is it.
Wondering if that oval tab on the right is their trade mark? Hard to see. Still great die-cuts and I mostly understand about piecing out the album given the condition.
As a seller to feed my habit I figured the re-sale would be higher in one piece to the right person rather than split it up - in the neighborhood of 5000. or more. As a collector of old cards and paper who likes to display their artistry - I had to consider it's a "book" which makes it a little difficult to enjoy as the intent was visual and not literary. Classic Henry as the underbidder when he couldn't make up his mind and he couldn't find extra cash under the seat cushions.....

[Joe Hunter]

Definitely Rugby. Uniforms and terminology are the give-a-ways. Still a nice item and yes, I have seen individual pieces of this set.

[danmckee]

I have singles of these and agree, they are rugby

[walnutts]

In Case anyone was interested (and for future reference) the sheet sold this evening on eBay for $1913.00 - the uncut sheet of Baseball Scraps sold for $2606.00.