OT: dogs being killed at the Sochi games. What we can do to help them

[the 'stache]

I know this is off topic, but I hope that everybody will indulge me for a moment, as this is something I feel is very important.

The last few nights, Keith Olbermann has led off his show talking about the Sochi Winter games, and the hundreds of dogs that are being inhumanely killed in the streets. These poor animals were left behind when their families were forcibly relocated in order to make room for the facilities needed for the Olympic games. They are being shot with "poison darts" that, in essence, suffocate them. It is taking up to an hour and a half for these dogs to die. When I saw this, I was just heartbroken to say the least. I am as big a dog lover as you will ever meet. I am a member of the ASPCA, and my family and I have adopted a number of shelter dogs over the years.

Here is Keith's lead off on Thursday night:



I sent Keith a message on Twitter asking him where we could send money to help these poor animals where it wouldn't fall into corrupt hands. He sent me a link to the Humane Society International website:

http://www.hsi.org/issues/street_dog...ationally.html

If you want to help, merely click on the "please support our efforts to help street dogs worldwide" link in order to make a donation that will help them rescue these dogs. For those of you that prefer not to give out your credit card info, you can do what I did, and donate via Paypal.

You can also let Russian President Vladimir Putin know that you are appalled by these inhuman street killings by signing the petition here

Please spread the word about this. Let your friends and family members know what is going on, and what they can do to help. And help me to take action. These poor dogs cannot speak out, nor save themselves, so we need to, because what is going on in Sochi right now in the name of "sport" is unconscionable. It needs to stop.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I'm in! Just donated.

[oldcardboard]

I'm in. That is horrible, what a bunch of BS!

[Josh Wolf]

Thanks for bringing this up Bill. Absolutely unconscionable and heartbreaking what they're doing. Just donated and signed the petition as well.

Josh

[the 'stache]

Thank you, guys. If you can, post this on your Twitter, and Facebook pages. We need to get action on this as quickly as possible, because these beautiful creatures are just being slaughtered.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to hug my lab, and cry.

[Josh Wolf]

I'm with you Bill. Already plan on telling as many friends and family as I can as I'm sure others will be eager to do so as well.

Josh

[vwtdi]

I'm on board. Thanks for bringing this awful situation to light.

[johnmh71]

Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals.

[Cliff Bowman]

As bad as this is, dogs (and cats) are treated worse in China, Korea, and Viet Nam.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals.

I get where you're coming from here.

BUT to look at this from another angle, and tie it in to your sentiment. If somehow, we were to focus solely on the needs of people, instead of getting sidetracked with animals, and other assorted causes, then we could get the people in a position, where maybe they could help the animals, in the form of being capable of giving them homes... Basically, a little trickle down effect..

For every job that gets outsourced, downsized, or whatever, not only do we make it harder on that household to function at full capacity, we also make it harder for them to be able to afford pets... And for every family that loses a house, they also(more than likely) lose a home for their pets, or potential pets... Start with the people, and the pets will greatly benefit as well..

How many people can afford to care for a pet, in terms of food and other general costs(licenses, whatever), but don't because the basic veterinary care makes it unaffordable for them? Probably plenty. Imagine instead of money being given to the ASPCA or other assorted animal groups, that the money went to support veterinary costs for lower end households. NOT saying more money, but the EXACT same money. Personally, I think more would be accomplished in terms of finding permanent homes for these animals..

Having said that. I'd still donate for this cause...

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals.

Disagree. Yes, there are people who need help, but on many levels people can help themselves. Animals cannot.

[MooseDog]

It isn't a question of either/or. There are may people who can't help themselves either, due to mental illness.

If you want to help animals, help animals

If you want to help people, then help people.

If you want to help both, then help both.

Stop arguing about it and get cracking...

[honus94566]

Having lived in Eastern Europe for years, I can tell you... these stray dogs are everywhere, and don't exactly have a high quality of life. I don't think controlling the street population of dogs is a bad thing. We do the same thing here in the USA (strays are brought to the humane society etc, and many of those that aren't adopted are euthanized).

That being said, if they are shooting them with poison darts that make them suffer for a while, that's messed up.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Having lived in Eastern Europe for years, I can tell you... these stray dogs are everywhere, and don't exactly have a high quality of life. I don't think controlling the street population of dogs is a bad thing. We do the same thing here in the USA (strays are brought to the humane society etc, and many of those that aren't adopted are euthanized).

That being said, if they are shooting them with poison darts that make them suffer for a while, that's messed up.

+1

I have long since soured on the Olympics, due mainly to the crooked governing federations that rule over them. This is just another reason for me to shun them.

[Section103]

I am proud to say that I have never questioned anyone's good deeds in my life. There's just no need to do so. There's more than enough to go around.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Disagree. Yes, there are people who need help, but on many levels people can help themselves. Animals cannot.

+ 1 billion

Thanks for this thread Bill.

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals.

I get what you're saying, but the flaw in that argument is (for the most part) people have the ability to help themselves if they try......dogs can't help themselves.....ever.

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Disagree. Yes, there are people who need help, but on many levels people can help themselves. Animals cannot.

Can children help themselves Ken? Particularly ill ones?

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a ridiculous distinction. If people want to donate to animal rights organizations that's fine, people should give as they want, but to justify it by smugly suggesting the millions of needy people in the world can help themselves makes no sense at all.

[honus94566]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's a ridiculous distinction. If people want to donate to animal rights organizations that's fine, people should give as they want, but to justify it by smugly suggesting the millions of needy people in the world can help themselves makes no sense at all.

+1

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's a ridiculous distinction. If people want to donate to animal rights organizations that's fine, people should give as they want, but to justify it by smugly suggesting the millions of needy people in the world can help themselves makes no sense at all.

You can twist and turn it all you want but will 100% lose this argument. Not even close.

Of course you can make statements about all of the poverty and it's not their fault blah blah blah......but the dogs didn't do anything to deserve their fate. And no, some kids and adults can't fend for themselves, but the dogs are just different. Say what you want to and the more you say the deeper you will dig, only in my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I never said it wasn't a good cause, Leon. If that's what moves you, that's fine by me. Where I get offended is where someone says the dogs are MORE deserving of charity than suffering people.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I never said it wasn't a good cause, Leon. If that's what moves you, that's fine by me. Where I get offended is where someone says the dogs are MORE deserving of charity than suffering people.

They are BOTH deserving and I do my part to help the homeless every single week and have for almost 15 yrs.

That being said, and I know this is crazy, but I get at least (and probably more) sad seeing dogs that are abused as I do people. Dogs are unconditional best friends, as my rescued stray is literally sleeping on my arm right now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think it's crazy, I've owned and loved dogs, I was only reacting to the statement that people can help themselves.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I never said it wasn't a good cause, Leon. If that's what moves you, that's fine by me. Where I get offended is where someone says the dogs are MORE deserving of charity than suffering people.

Who said THAT on this thread?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think it's crazy, I've owned and loved dogs, I was only reacting to the statement that people can help themselves.

Some can some can't. But they have more of a chance than most stray dogs, again only imo.......

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

It isn't a question of either/or. There are may people who can't help themselves either, due to mental illness.

If you want to help animals, help animals

If you want to help people, then help people.

If you want to help both, then help both.

Stop arguing about it and get cracking...

+1

Stop arguing and get cracking!

jeff

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Who said THAT on this thread?

It seemed a fair inference when someone posted let's start with people and two responses were essentially that people can help themselves but animals cannot.

[slidekellyslide]

Good cause, but I doubt any of the money will actually save a single dog in Russia...they completely cut off a village near Sochi just to make a damn road. Ever seen a Russian dashcam video? They have no regard for life at all in that country. It's like having Jethro Bodine with nuclear weapons.

[Maddog]

Well count me in. Just signed petition and sent $$.
I too will be passing this on to all my contacts and have my kids send to their friends and classmates.
An animal gives us unconditional love and affection. Personally, all of my pets were more a part of my family than some members OF my family.
Just ask the 3 that still reside in marble vases on my fireplace

[teetwoohsix]

I think this is a righteous thing to do, to try to help helpless animals. No innocent life should suffer abuse, and these dogs do need to be helped. Hopefully the attention will bring about change for these dogs in Russia.

With that being said, I think some people have become desensitized to suffering humans, not only in this country but around the world. When people assume that all homeless people can help themselves, I wonder how much thought is actually put into this way of thinking.

If you are homeless, sleeping on a cardboard box under dirty blankets, in the same clothes you've worn for a month, waiting in line at a shelter (that's full to capacity) for your one charitable meal for the day- no family or friends- how do you "help yourself"?! Do you go and start turning in job applications, no phone number, address, dirty, tired, hungry? What do you do? WHO will hire you?

We, as a country, send billions of dollars in "foreign aid" to country's that hate our guts, but we turn a blind eye to our fellow AMERICAN HUMAN BEINGS who are in need. It makes me F@#$%^! sick.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Sincerely, Clayton

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Maddog

Well count me in. Just signed petition and sent $$.
I too will be passing this on to all my contacts and have my kids send to their friends and classmates.
An animal gives us unconditional love and affection. Personally, all of my pets were more a part of my family than some members OF my family.
Just ask the 3 that still reside in marble vases on my fireplace

Same for all of my family's pets...We always had dogs growing up. I recall at one time there were 4. Before my mother had passed last year from cancer, she requested that she be buried with 3 of them, and that my father(when he passes), be buried with the other 3. Or 2, depending on if Duke has passed by then. Dad's in pretty good shape, and Duke is a 10 year old, 125+ lb, American Bulldog who is aging very quickly at this point. It'll break my dad's heart when he passes. He was my mom's protector and best-friend(even to the point where people weren't allowed near her at times, when she was sick). He's been as depressed as the rest of us since my mother's passing, and he and my father have really bonded over it...

Every person deserves that type of bond, and so does every dog..

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I think this is a righteous thing to do, to try to help helpless animals. No innocent life should suffer abuse, and these dogs do need to be helped. Hopefully the attention will bring about change for these dogs in Russia.

With that being said, I think some people have become desensitized to suffering humans, not only in this country but around the world. When people assume that all homeless people can help themselves, I wonder how much thought is actually put into this way of thinking.

If you are homeless, sleeping on a cardboard box under dirty blankets, in the same clothes you've worn for a month, waiting in line at a shelter (that's full to capacity) for your one charitable meal for the day- no family or friends- how do you "help yourself"?! Do you go and start turning in job applications, no phone number, address, dirty, tired, hungry? What do you do? WHO will hire you?

We, as a country, send billions of dollars in "foreign aid" to country's that hate our guts, but we turn a blind eye to our fellow AMERICAN HUMAN BEINGS who are in need. It makes me F@#$%^! sick.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Sincerely, Clayton

100% agree with this.

[drmondobueno]

I would suggest you watch the Olberman lmk again. The show participants suggested the dogs reacted like pets , not feral animls. A factoid was thrown out about people being relicated by the government in order to build the facilities. It was suggested the dogs were staying where they used to live. Why did the dogs not go with their former masters? And on and on...

This just smacks of big business, big government, big television taking what is wanted and ignoring the rest. We dont know what happened to the people, if anything. But we do know what is being done to the dogs.

My wife and I have five rescued cats, the only reason we don't have dogs at this time. Our local community is trying to raise several hundred thousand dollars to construct a safe, warm animal shelter. In an area with a total population of under 25,000 it will not happen soon but it will happen.

I can tell you people in this small area with its very limited funds do get better attention than animals. We dont euthanize people.

Keith Temple

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It seemed a fair inference when someone posted let's start with people and two responses were essentially that people can help themselves but animals cannot.

Your inference is pretty far out if you deduced that I said that dogs are MORE deserving of charity than humans. In any case, it's pretty dicey to establish a "needometer" to gauge what is more of a priority for charitable giving. With limited resources, we all must, unfortunately, pick and choose.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Your inference is pretty far out you deduced that I said that dogs are MORE deserving of charity than humans. In any case, it's pretty dicey to establish a "needometer" to gauge what is more of a priority for charitable giving. With limited resources, we all must, unfortunately, pick and choose.

Yes, I agree and said so, people should give as their hearts dictate. My dispute was with the notion being offered to justify giving to animal rights that people can fend for themselves. I did not bring that into the picture, you did.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I think this is a righteous thing to do, to try to help helpless animals. No innocent life should suffer abuse, and these dogs do need to be helped. Hopefully the attention will bring about change for these dogs in Russia.

With that being said, I think some people have become desensitized to suffering humans, not only in this country but around the world. When people assume that all homeless people can help themselves, I wonder how much thought is actually put into this way of thinking.

If you are homeless, sleeping on a cardboard box under dirty blankets, in the same clothes you've worn for a month, waiting in line at a shelter (that's full to capacity) for your one charitable meal for the day- no family or friends- how do you "help yourself"?! Do you go and start turning in job applications, no phone number, address, dirty, tired, hungry? What do you do? WHO will hire you?

We, as a country, send billions of dollars in "foreign aid" to country's that hate our guts, but we turn a blind eye to our fellow AMERICAN HUMAN BEINGS who are in need. It makes me F@#$%^! sick.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Sincerely, Clayton

I agree with you as far as it goes, but I would assert that we as a society do not turn a blind eye. Sadly, more is always needs. What "makes me F@#$%^! sick", in the context of this thread, is the inhumane extermination of these dogs so that some hipster can barrel down a hill for endorsements on a snowboard.

I wonder if any of the athletes or the USOC will make themselves heard on this.

[MyGuyTy]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Can children help themselves Ken? Particularly ill ones?

Are there not organizations that are already set up for children?? Not sure what your point is. There are organizations for EVERYBODY. The argument was against other people saying "shouldn't that money go to people who are needy?".......you know the people who stand on the corners begging for money and then when you don't roll down your window they curse you out and flip off and tell you that their wife is bleeding between her legs and they can't afford tampons for her.....yep those. They have so much creatively to come up with scams and schemes to get your hand out, that they should be putting that creativity to better use with a job.

[JasonL]

you can always tell how far off topic a post is by the winding trail that the responses take, and the degree to which the passion escalates.

Needless to say, this one is shaping up to be WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY OT.

What do I think, some may ask?
Oh well, ...I learned long long ago that what I think doesn't matter.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, I agree and said so, people should give as their hearts dictate. My dispute was with the notion being offered to justify giving to animal rights that people can fend for themselves. I did not bring that into the picture, you did.

You conveniently omit that I wrote ON MANY LEVELS people can help themselves and that animals cannot. If this is not so, tell me how it's not. I don't see how giving to animal welfare needs to be justified. You brought THAT into the picture.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ken I think we are squabbling needlessly and we probably agree more than disagree, but why bring whether people can or can't help themselves into it at all? How is it even relevant to whether this is a good cause? Why did you bring it up in the first place?

[Cardboard Junkie]

I'll say it. I hate most people, and I love most animals.

[drcy]

You can help animals in your local area. And/or people too. That's not a snide remark, but a recommendation. There are strays and shelters in all localities, and being nice to a strange dog or providing water and food for local birds in winter is all a good thing. Adopt a new pet and give it an enjoyable life. Be helpful to others is also a good start. Be nice to your pet, take it for a walk today. Get your dog or cat spayed or neutered. Built a bird's nest that will protect it from cats. Have a conversation with a homeless person on the street, treat him or her as a normal person. People begging for money have told me they appreciate a conversation more than money. If you want to do charity more formal, that's great. Sign up to volunteer once a week. If you wish to donate money for a Russian dog shelter, that's great. If you prefer your charity go to downtrodden humans instead of dogs that's great as long as you do it. As my dad would say "It's not an either/or situation, it's a both/and."

Interestingly, Putin is a well known dog fan and is famous/notorious for bringing his black lab with him to meetings, including with international leaders such as German Chancellor Angela Merkel below.





The photos aren't an endorsement, just something about Putin I already knew. I read a lot.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I'll say it. I hate most people, and I love most animals.

You and Linus.

[johnmh71]

Sorry, but if I have to choose between donating to Dana Farber to help with a family's excessive medical expenses or donating to a bunch of mutts in another country, the choice is simple.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Sorry, but if I have to choose between donating to Dana Farber to help with a family's excessive medical expenses or donating to a bunch of mutts in another country, the choice is simple.

I'm with ya John. I'd give to the pooches everytime too!

[drcy]

As far as homeless go, I live in the big city and see them and many are clearly seriously mentally ill. Many of them are perfectly nice and friendly when you talk to them, but they clearly don't have the mental and sometimes physical capabilities that the average person does. Arguing that they should pull themselves up without others' help is silly.

As I said before, if person A wants to help dogs in Russia, person B wants to help cats locally and persons D and E wants their charity to go to humans, great. What's to complain about there? It's not a dogs versus humans argument.

[ALR-bishop]

[Runscott]

Bill - thanks for posting this. It is truly heart-breaking. And thanks to Keith O for his well-done program.

Clayton - I sent you an email regarding homelessness. I know that Nevada has gotten a lot of flack for shipping their homeless to California, as opposed to helping them, so it could be that you are seeing an extreme. Homelessness is terrible, regardless of the level, but you should be aware of some of the efforts that are being made (and working) in other parts of the country. I can really only speak for Seattle, where I've lived downtown for 7 years - it could be that we are the other extreme from what you've seen, not that it's good to be homeless here.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ken I think we are squabbling needlessly and we probably agree more than disagree, but why bring whether people can or can't help themselves into it at all? How is it even relevant to whether this is a good cause? Why did you bring it up in the first place?

I don't know. I forgot.

No seriously (somewhat), to react to the below post. Nothing more. I respect that people prioritize things differently. But it is a fact that stray dogs cannot help themselves. And yes, I agree that children mostly cannot help themselves, but they are not being shot with poison darts, at least not in any civilized country that I know of.

Originally Posted by johnmh71
"Not to say this isn't bad, but aren't there people out there that need help too? I would start there before I moved onto animals."

I'm done.