what a joke

[thehoodedcoder]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=271222721123


Response from seller:

The description is accurate so one is left to discuss merely the price.The multiplicity which T206 collecting has fractioned into creates a tremendous demand for a specimen which is slightly different or simply stands out from the rest.Blank backs, miscuts, stray text versions, print defect jobs, freaks, singles with ghosted surfaces, and color varieties, almost without exception once thought to be relatively WORTHLESS, are now instead all the craze with many selling for thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars both privately and publicly.This exponential value growth is still happening with an end nowhere in sight.You can emphatically claim that this card is not worth even a grand, but years from now when everyone is still hunting desperately while the supply of distinct T206's has dried up even further, you or someone else might well fit into the category of "I really wish I had bought that card when it was REASONABLY PRICED."Best wishes for much continued hobby enjoyment.Regards,Irishhosta


LOL what a joke. Im going to start putting my old mill slers on ebay and claiming the same thing then marking them up 100x

when anyone asks about them i will give them this guys reply.

kevin

[Zach Wheat]

They actually are a pretty good seller. I have bought a number of pre WW II cards from them. They had the only set Of V61s Type IIs with a good mix of Type Is that I have seen in a long time. At the time I did not realize how rare Type Is we're for certain cards and passed on the set. They were knowledgeable and willing to negotiate. Now I wish I purchased it as I have seen very few of certain cards since.

I chalk the description you referenced as being a promoter...perhaps this is not an unreasonable price for someone.....

Z Wheat

[bobbyw8469]

I know this seller has some Sport Kings I wanted when I was building the set. His prices were so far off in left field, I didn't even bother to make an offer, as any reasonable offer would be seen as an insult by him. Another Ebay museum seller in my eyes.....

[CW]

The back of this card is browner than any typical Black Old Mill back you see. Furthermore, it is factory cut and you can judge for yourself if it is brown enough to enter into your collection as an official Brown Old Mill back.

Response from seller:

The description is accurate

Hmmmm... when he says "the back of this card is browner" I wonder if he's referring to the actual overall surface of the back, and not the print (that print, btw, is not close AT ALL to being brownish).

If he's trying to say that the print is brown, well, his description is not accurate. I guess by letting us "judge for ourselves" he is absolving himself from any blame should the card look black in hand.

Ultimately, no experienced T206 collector will buy this as a legit brown OM.

€hû¢k Wölƒƒ

[I won't edit this post, but to clear up any confusion, the ebay description was changed after this post]

[Sean]

My favorite part is where he says "factory cut." Brown Old Mills were not distributed in packs and are essentially printer's scrap, so shouldn't they be hand cut?
If it was a Brown Old Mill, which it is not.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by CW

Ultimately, no experienced T206 collector will buy this as a legit brown OM.

€hû¢k Wölƒƒ

This all reminds me of what Wonka said recently in another thread," If you have to ask, it isn't brown."

[Rich Klein]

Brian and Michael Wentz in thei other selling ID --- few people know as much as they do about cards.

Rich

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Brian and Michael Wentz in thei other selling ID --- few people know as much as they do about cards.

Rich

They are displaying their ignOrance proudly on this one...

Kevin

[the 'stache]

Ok, I will volunteer myself as the discussion newbie, and ask why the card for sale is not a brown old mill. Coincidentally, I did a search for rarest T206 backs last night, and found this old thread on our forum:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=121930

Old mill brown is the scarcest, apparently, but the one up for sale looks brown to me.

Could somebody please post a picture of a true old mill brown back here? I'll then copy the back from the Ebay auction, and make a picture in Photoshop to put them side by side.

Might as well make this discussion a learning tool.

[the 'stache]

Hmm, this might suffice..



But how can I tell the one for sale is not the one on the left, the rarer version?

[CW]

But how can I tell the one for sale is not the one on the left, the rarer version?

It simply does not look brown to me when comparing to legitimate brown OM backs. It can be tough to tell if you're dealing with a bad scan or photo, but this one seems fairly clear.

[thehoodedcoder]

the person selling this card knows very well that it is not a brown back.

no real need for discussion about it. they are simply saying what they are saying so they can put a 2500.00 price tag on their item and hope some one is going to buy it.

their response says it all..."give me 2500 and then you decide if it is half brown and half black or if you made a big mistake."

kevin

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

the person selling this card knows very well that it is not a brown back.

no real need for discussion about it. they are simply saying what they are saying so they can put a 2500.00 price tag on their item and hope some one is going to buy it.

their response says it all..."give me 2500 and then you decide if it is half brown and half black or if you made a big mistake."

kevin

Since I believe we're all in agreement about this particular auction, Kevin, I'll just leave this link to a discussion that has already taken place on Net54 (thanks to Sean for directing me to it).

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=172268

Anybody who stumbles across this thread in the future looking for more information about identifying true brown Old Mills backs need only go to this linked discussion.

[wonkaticket]

Not brown, and these two folks should know its not and know better than to even hint that it is. The very response is sign that its not brown any card that needs that much of a pitch isn't a tough card.

Nice to know that some folks can put a price on their credibility looks like theirs can be had for 2500.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Brian and Michael Wentz in thei other selling ID --- few people know as much as they do about cards.

Rich

This is what DICK says. He is obviously a poor judge of character.

Here's what I think of the sellers.

[Rich Klein]

DP:

It takes one to really know one --

And as you yourself pointed out, you have already had one banishment from these boards, and you are well on your way to a second banishment

Rich

[Runscott]

I've bought from the seller often over the years, and she has always been very honest and easy to deal with.

I have had quite a few of these light ink Old Mills, and compared to the heavy ink obvious black ones, they do look brown. But the litmus test is to compare them to a Brown Hindu - it will be very obvious that they are not really brown.

[MW1]

I can see where some might think the description is misleading, though I was not the one who wrote it, nor do I believe the author had the intention to deceive. Still, to use the wording, "Let the buyer decide or be the judge" is inappropriate in the context it was employed and it has been changed.

Thank you, Kevin, for bringing this to my attention.

[timn1]

I always considered the Wentz family ("irishhosta" is Brian and Michael's mom, I think, who handles a lot of their ebay sales) honest, if not always the most fun dealers to interact with. But this one really does seem bogus to me, and their response to the inquiry is appalling. The back of this card does not look like anything unusual to me, and to represent it as such, which they are clearly doing, is sharp practice if not actually dishonest.

ADDENDUM: since Michael W. just posted an acknowledgment of the problem, I retract my comments above. I will leave them as a reference to the earlier circumstances, but they no longer represent my current view. Even so, $2500?

[wonkaticket]

The description of the lot is still so very misleading to say the least.

You can tell quite a bit of thought was put into the write ups. This was no mislabel mistake. Even more thought was put into the response almost to defend the mistake. To me the write up is clearly trying to accomplish one thing IMO get somebody to purchase on hope, lack of education and trust a $150 card for $2500.Not what I expect from folks at their level.

I appreciate Mike coming here to clear this up. However to me it looks like an attempt to smooth over the situation after being caught hands deep in the cookie jar. Perhaps I'm wrong who knows, but once again buyer beware folks.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by MW1

I can see where some might think the description is misleading, though I was not the one who wrote it, nor do I believe the author had the intention to deceive. Still, to use the wording, "Let the buyer decide or be the judge" is inappropriate in the context it was employed and it has been changed.

Thank you, Kevin, for bringing this to my attention.

no problem.

quick question though, who did write the description and who wrote the response to my inquiry?

kevin

[ullmandds]

looks grey to me...def not brown...grey...gray?!

[MW1]

I would not describe the color as gray. It is an unusual shade between black and brown and there are no signs of fading. Perhaps the scan does not adequately depict this aspect of color but it is evident (in person) when compared to a black Old Mill.

[ullmandds]

Judging color has never been my strongest suit...fine...it's not grey/gray...but it's definitely not brown?!

[kcohen]

With all due respect to the author, I find the second write-up equally as lame, if not more so, than the first.

K.en Coh.en

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by MW1

I would not describe the color as gray. It is an unusual shade between black and brown and there are no signs of fading. Perhaps the scan does not adequately depict this aspect of color but it is evident (in person) when compared to a black Old Mill.

you didn't address my question. who is responsible for it? and who wrote the response to me?

kevin

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by kcohen

With all due respect to the author, I find the second write-up equally as lame, if not more so, than the first.

K.en Coh.en

+1

"It can be had for a fraction of the price of a true Brown Old Mill"

Right because its not a Brown Old Mill, I can get a fake Rolex for the fraction of the price of a real Rolex.

How many times do we have to see the same game played with this stretch of a color angle, wrong league etc.

It's not brown but not black...like the Movie Spinal Tap..."it's more of a pastel black"....ughhhh

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...d+mill+goodwin

[mrvster]

just read this thread and

1000 % not brown om, or even close.....I have been dreaming of owning a true brown om......I 'm still kicking myself for not getting Dan's a few years ago on ebay(w/ the writing on back).....

john vanderbeck

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by kcohen

With all due respect to the author, I find the second write-up equally as lame, if not more so, than the first.

K.en Coh.en

It looks like Yogi's script from an AFLAC commercial.

[CW]

Originally Posted by mrvster

just read this thread and

1000 % not brown om, or even close.....I have been dreaming of owning a true brown om......I 'm still kicking myself for not getting Dan's a few years ago on ebay(w/ the writing on back).....

john vanderbeck

well don't kick yourself, but....

Brown Old Mill at a bargain!

[Sean]

Yeah, I saw it on ebay. When it went over $40 I gave up. I didn't think it was worth that kind of money.

Just kidding.

[ullmandds]

damn Sean...did that auction really happen??????

[Sean]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

damn Sean...did that auction really happen??????

I just heard about it this morning.
As unhappy as I am about missing it, imagine how the consigner would feel if he ever realizes what he had.

[barrysloate]

How did everyone on Net54 miss something like that? Don't many of you go over all these listings with a loupe and a fine toothed comb?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by MW1

I would not describe the color as gray. It is an unusual shade between black and brown and there are no signs of fading. Perhaps the scan does not adequately depict this aspect of color but it is evident (in person) when compared to a black Old Mill.

Let's have a poll

Is it brack?

Is it blown?

Is it another unusual shade between black and brown?

[ullmandds]

that is the deal of the millenium!!!! congrats to whoever got it!!!

[ullmandds]

frank...i think it's brack-ish!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Let's have a poll

Is it brack?

Is it blown?

Is it another unusual shade between black and brown?

Frank, forget about the card in the original post.

Look at the card in post #30

[howard38]

,

[ullmandds]

thousands and thousands! I'm not a t206 guy...you'd have to ask them for a more accurate estimate!?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by howard38

What is the card worth?

I'm guessing that the bidding would easily reach $8,000 and probably go over $10k. After that it depends on whether a couple of us want to really bid it up.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by howard38

what is the card worth?

$51.55

[thehoodedcoder]

holy crap...it sold for 50 bucks?

that is INSANITY.

kevin

[barrysloate]

So how did everybody miss it?

[ullmandds]

i missed it...cuz I wasn't looking!!!! Even I'd have bought it!!!!

[Sean]

I missed it because my ebay search is for the terms Brown Old Mill.

The title never mentioned brown, so it never showed up in my searchs.

[thehoodedcoder]

that is like hitting the lottery....

i feel like an idiot for not seeing that.

kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

I think I may have seen it but saw trimmed and blew right by.....you have to scroll right down to see the back........figured it was just a reg. old mill that was trimmed....but being a pre war seller, wouldn't the seller know what it was? And if it didn't seem inline with its worth, make corrections? Unless there is something less than honorable going on....... who knows? Hell of a deal for the buyer, good for them! Dave.

[scottglevy]

Oh my goodness!!

That is probably the single greatest deal that I have seen during my entire time collecting prewar cards. What an incredible purchase!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by scottglevy

Oh my goodness!!

That is probably the single greatest deal that I have seen during my entire time collecting prewar cards. What an incredible purchase!

+1