T206 Wagner Gretzky/McNall

[xcgrammer]

This may be known by some already but... After talking to representative from Memory Lane he said that Kendrick's son is very much into the hobby. And the first thing that went through my mind was that after seeing the Wagner sell many times in the last 20 or so years, we may never see it sell again. It was always exciting everytime it came up for sale.

[T205 GB]

because it is confirmed to the hobby that the card is a fraud and won't sell for crap anymore. just a polished turd

[Cardboard Junkie]

Tell us how you really feel Andrew. Actually I agree, many don't but I think there are a few Wagz that are nicer cards firstly because they are "complete" cards. Secondly because the don't have all the baggage of the Kendricks card. Dave.

[canjond]

Just my opinion, but I don't agree. I think the card will continue to stand as the most expensive of the Wagners. In my mind, it's different than a trimmed card (i.e., a card issued in one size, then trimmed to enhance its appeal). This card was never issued... sure it was cut to size from a sheet, but I look at the card as being something separate and apart from actual issued Wagners.

[timber63401]

I guess it depends of what your definition of crap is. If it went up for sale at a big auction house tomorrow Id put the over/under at 1.5 Mil. Maybe Im just way off on that.

[DerekMichael]

i am not even sure why, but my get tells me the card is still profitable ... it is just so gorgeous

[kengoldin]

There is no doubt in my mind that if I ever got this card for auction at Goldin Auctions I would make a very nice profit for Mr. Kendrick.
Regardless of how the die hard hobbyists and forum members feel about it, to the general public, it is an iconic card and the flag bearer for sports collectibles. I have zero doubt that at least two of the investment bankers or Fortune 500 CEOs on my registered bidder list would be very excited to own it.
Sometimes what the collector of cards for 30 years feels about an item ( and btw, I bought ny first t206 was I was 11, I turn 48 in two weeks) does not matter. What matters is how the general public feels and how people with the actual means to buy the card feel. This will always be the card that Wayne Gretzky owned and changed the Hobby's perception in the eyes of the general public forever.
To you it may be a card worthy of an "AUTH" grade. But to enough people, it is the worlds most valuable card.
Respectfully
Ken Goldin

[Texxxx]

Ken, I will agree with you that the card is an icon for card collecting. I also think it should not have made it to that level.

[wonkaticket]

Card will always be worth money and will most likely continue to rise in value. First reason for this not all folks follow this hobby and all the drama that is public knowledge and the item is world famous it’s the corner stone of our hobby don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Second reason the rest of us that do follow the hobby and the drama pretty much ignore it were our own worst enemies. I see all this smack talk and crying about cleaning the hobby up yet for the most part it’s just that lip service.

We are given piles of evidence, federal fraud charges, grading scams and hosts of other examples. Yet when items come up we need or want very few of us sit on the sidelines out of morality. Nope were there money in hand bidding with the very folks who are the cause of the outrage. When were not bidding with criminals and scoundrels we are quoting webpages from proven scam artists once again talking about making a difference, not all of us but the bulk of us are guilty of some of these things myself included.

For these reasons the PSA 8 Wagner will always be a one really expensive card the most famous and valuable card in our hobby. If anything the drama around this card has increased its value.

[atx840]

If I had the choice I'd pick the 8.

[barrysloate]

The card is worth a ton of money, and always will be, despite its obvious problems. The owner is very happy with it, as well as his son, and that is what matters. The story behind it is not a good one but it will live on in spite of it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

There is no doubt in my mind that if I ever got this card for auction at Goldin Auctions I would make a very nice profit for Mr. Kendrick.
.....
Ken Goldin

No doubt you could Ken. You are a marketing madman .......

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The card is worth a ton of money, and always will be, despite its obvious problems. The owner is very happy with it, as well as his son, and that is what matters. The story behind it is not a good one but it will live on in spite of it.

But if the owner knows its trimmed he should get it reholdered with the A grade.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by travrosty

But if the owner knows its trimmed he should get it reholdered with the A grade.

That's his decision. If he wants to sell it I agree with you 100%. BUt if he plans to keep it he's not obligated to do anything.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

BUt if he plans to keep it he's not obligated to do anything.

Legally? No
Morally? Yes

If it were any other trimmed card that was slabbed with a number grade and the owner was aware of it, he would be frowned upon by most collectors for not doing the right thing and having it properly re-labeled. Not sure why the Wagner or Kendrick is any different.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by travrosty

But if the owner knows its trimmed he should get it reholdered with the A grade.

Would you if you bought it?

[ullmandds]

Why would anyone...no matter how rich or poor regrade the Gret/McN Wags an A...thereby potentially devaluing it exponentially...makes no sense?!?!

[timber63401]

Its his card, zero obligation to re holder it. Also when and if he puts it up for sale is there really even one legit potential buyer who wont know its history?

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Legally? No
Morally? Yes

If it were any other trimmed card that was slabbed with a number grade and the owner was aware of it, he would be frowned upon by most collectors for not doing the right thing and having it properly re-labeled. Not sure why the Wagner or Kendrick is any different.

What if he wants to snap it out, destroy the holder, and put the card in a lucite screwdown. What is his moral or legal obligation if he still chooses to keep it?

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Why would anyone...no matter how rich or poor regrade the Gret/McN Wags an A...thereby potentially devaluing it exponentially...makes no sense?!?!

Exactly. What's the upside?

[ullmandds]

To me...the fact that this was the first card PSA graded...and graded erroneously in fact...is a great part of the history of the card...and should remain in it's current crypt.

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

Exactly. What's the upside?

That's an interesting question. Let's say he broke it out & resubmitted it raw to PSA and PSA put the "A" on the slab. Would it change people's perception of PSA ? Give them publicity ?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

To you it may be a card worthy of an "AUTH" grade. But to enough people, it is the worlds most valuable card.
Respectfully
Ken Goldin

I don't see any reason it can't be both.

Steve B

[travrosty]

agreed,

i wouldnt have a problem if it was the worlds most expensive, as long as it is holdered with the correct grade. It's only fair to the thousands of other collectors who submit their cards and rely on a fair grading system.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Why would anyone...no matter how rich or poor regrade the Gret/McN Wags an A...thereby potentially devaluing it exponentially...makes no sense?!?!

So, if I'm reading correctly, it's not the card that has the value, it's the holder? Or, more specifically, the spot on the holder where the number or letter is noted?

Hmmm,
Doug

[Cardboard Junkie]

I think it only became the most valuable card after Mastro and professional sports authenticators conspired to grade it an 8. If it had been graded honestly it wouldn't have achieved that status. Dave Pierson

[e107collector]

Well PSA got 1 out of 2 right. Here is a link to the Gretzky McNall mate, the Eddie Plank card. It's graded PSA Authentic.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2009/890.html

One gets an Authentic, one gets an "8." What's wrong with that?


Tony

[slidekellyslide]

Is PSA on the hook for any loss the card would take on a resale if they put the dreaded "A" on it?

[HRBAKER]

We are given piles of evidence, federal fraud charges, grading scams and hosts of other examples. Yet when items come up we need or want very few of us sit on the sidelines out of morality. Nope were there money in hand bidding with the very folks who are the cause of the outrage. When were not bidding with criminals and scoundrels we are quoting webpages from proven scam artists once again talking about making a difference, not all of us but the bulk of us are guilty of some of these things myself included.

Amen, and amen.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I'm speculating that there has been some contact between Mr. Kendricks Lawyers and PSA. PSA's silence on the matter is deafening. David.