1933 George C Miller discussion

[Mrvintage]

After looking at a few threads where people were examining cards from particular sets that are considered tougher to find than others, I decided to do the same with the 1933 George C Miller set. I obviously didn't include the Ivy Andrews card. After looking at both the PSA and SGC population reports there were a few things that really caught my eye. I only looked at the uncancelled cards that received a numerical grade and here is what I discovered. I will put the number of psa graded cards first and then the SGC number along with a total number from both companies. I will start with the highest pop cards first. It was amazing to me how few graded copies of some of these cards exist. I also tend to believe that many of these pops are bloated due to crackouts and crossovers. Any thoughts or opinions on which cards are truly the toughest to find in uncancelled form whether it be raw or graded. Thanks, Andy

Mel Ott 19+19=38
Rabbitt Marnaville 22+15=37
Charlie Gehringer 23+11=34
Dizzy Dean 18+15=33
Al Simmons 21+11=32
Jimmy Foxx 21+11=32
Lloyd Waner 20+12=32
Goose Goslin 23+8=31
Charlie Grimm 19+12=31
Paul Waner 18+10=28
Jimmy Dykes 20+8=28
Dale Alexander 14+13=27
Frankie Frisch 14+13=27
Lefty Grove 17+10=27
Joe Stripp 17+10=27
Bill Terry 14+12=26
Chuck Klein 16+10=26
Charles Ruffing 17+9=26
Jim Bottomley 19+7=26
Oscar Mellilo 18+8=26
Dick Bartell 16+9=25
Lonnie Warneke 12+12=24
Bill Dickey 17+7=24
Lefty O'doul 13+11=24
Carl Reynolds 13+10=23
Chick Hafey 11+12=23
Earl Averill 14+9=23
Joe Cronin 14+9=23
Walter Berger 13+7=20
Wesley Ferrell 13+7=20
Ray Hayworth 14+5=19

[RCMcKenzie]

This has always been one of my favorite sets. I only have 3 examples. here is one...

[Leon]

Andy, I think all of the cards are tough from this set. My type from the George C Miller set is Hafey and since it's been shown already, no reason to show it again. Here is George's autograph below. I think it's probably even more rare than the cards. He is telling a potential distributor that they have his territory covered already. With being careful of diluting the market I wonder if that is what helped make the cards scarce too?

[gman]

Originally Posted by Mrvintage

After looking at both the PSA and SGC population reports there were a few things that really caught my eye.

Andy,

Am I correct in assuming that most of the cards on the population reports are of a lower grading quality?

[Mrvintage]

Leon that is a very cool letter!!!! I am hoping I will be able to find a few nice Millers at the National this year. I have had success finding a few at past conventions so hopefully I will have good luck this year as well.

[Mrvintage]

Originally Posted by gman

Andy,

Am I correct in assuming that most of the cards on the population reports are of a lower grading quality?

Yes the majority of the cards in both the PSA and SGC population reports are lower grades.

[leftygrove10]

Here is one of my Grove examples from this set.

[Mrvintage]

That's a nice Lefty!!!!! Sweet card Brad.

[steve B]

I've been lucky to pick up eight of them since 1979 or so. The first few from the shop I hung out at, the most recent off Ebay, where it was listed as "old baseball card" for $40 opener. Nobody else bid, probably because the listing had all the traits of fakery except grandpas attic.




As far as I know they're all tough. There are also two backs, and one may be harder than the other. I don't have both, but I've seen both in a small lot I got to look at, maybe 30-40 cards? Mostly vg, and I think the two backs were about equal. I should have bought at least one, but they were just too much at the time.

There's at least one uncut partial sheet out there. It was on the TTS cover in maybe 1980. Everyone local was a bit put out, the dealer found it on a buying trip to Boston.

The set was also in book of lists as part of a list of the 10 rarest baseball cards. And aside from the Wagner, Plank and Lajoie I think it's the only one that still has any major following.

Steve B

[leftygrove10]

The Grove that I posted above is a Type I back. The Klein below is an example of the Type II back.

[leftygrove10]

Some of the cards were also punch cancelled. The Hafey below is an example.

[benjulmag]

Between the artistic quality of the cards (so representative of the era), the importance of the players depicted and the challenge to finding cards, this is my favorite 1930's set with no close second. Kudos to Mrvintage for initiating this thread.

[HRBAKER]

My favorite set of the 30's as well, narrowly over the Butter Creams.

[Mrvintage]

Jeff that Gehringer is a beauty and you already know how I feel about the Foxx that you have there. Is the Gehringer in an authentic holder because it is a bit short? I have had around 30 Millers at one time or another, but like an idiot I sold them all a few years back. The only one that I currently own is a psa 3.5 Oscar Mellilo. I always keep coming back to this set though and hopefully this time I will be able to show more patience and try to collect them all. In my experience Bill Dickey seems to be pretty tough to find. I've never collected any of the cut or punched cards, but even those are tough to find. As far as the backs I believe that the type 1 backs are thought to be the original printing and can easily be distinguished because they misspelled Foxx as Fox and Klein as Klien. Personally I have found the type 1 cards to be more difficult to find, but I can't really say whether or not they command a premium.

[HRBAKER]

No the Gehringer does not appear to be short. It does have some paper loss on the back that may account for the grade. I have always loved these, it's a tough set to build. Imagine what a Ruth and Gehrig would bring!

[murcerfan]

I started this set 10 years ago as a side project (either back).
Have all in sgc/psa 2 or better except:

Waner, P
Grove
Foxx
Dean
Bottomly


Money could have bought any of them, but my bids/pockets were shy.
So I consider them tough(er), I also found Hafey and Heyworth hard to find in anything but poor condition.

McKee is the expert.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Mrvintage

Jeff that Gehringer is a beauty and you already know how I feel about the Foxx that you have there. Is the Gehringer in an authentic holder because it is a bit short? I have had around 30 Millers at one time or another, but like an idiot I sold them all a few years back. The only one that I currently own is a psa 3.5 Oscar Mellilo. I always keep coming back to this set though and hopefully this time I will be able to show more patience and try to collect them all. In my experience Bill Dickey seems to be pretty tough to find. I've never collected any of the cut or punched cards, but even those are tough to find. As far as the backs I believe that the type 1 backs are thought to be the original printing and can easily be distinguished because they misspelled Foxx as Fox and Klein as Klien. Personally I have found the type 1 cards to be more difficult to find, but I can't really say whether or not they command a premium.

Interesting, all of mine are type 1. All but one were picked up here in the Boston area. I wonder if there was a more local distribution followed by a larger more national one?

Steve B

[uffda51]

Here is a link to an R300 set I formerly owned.

http://imageevent.com/uffda51/1933r3...cteup5.camel_s

For me Melillo was the toughest, i.e., last to acquire. All uncanceled except Andrews.

An under-rated set.

[spec]

Originally Posted by steve B

Interesting, all of mine are type 1. All but one were picked up here in the Boston area. I wonder if there was a more local distribution followed by a larger more national one?

Steve B

Steve's speculation seems on target. My set, built during many years in the Boston area, includes only one Type 2. As for individual scarcities, I never found any card more difficult than the others. Bruce's observation that he had the most trouble finding Melillo is an example of how small population samples can give a less-than precise picture since I found Melillo to be the most abundant.
Bob Richardson

[murcerfan]

I found the Bartell and Grimm cards the easiest.

[Mrvintage]

Originally Posted by uffda51

Here is a link to an R300 set I formerly owned.

http://imageevent.com/uffda51/1933r3...cteup5.camel_s

For me Melillo was the toughest, i.e., last to acquire. All uncanceled except Andrews.

An under-rated set.

That's ironic because the Mellilo is the only card I currently have......lol

[ecRich]

I don't know if any cards of certain players are any tougher other than Andrews. The last two I got for my set were Bottomley and Maranville. Type 2 cards are tougher in uncanceled form, Andrews has only been found in type 1. Some players are very tough in type 2. Many of the cut/canceled cards are type 2 and were mixed with type 1 Andrews and others to send in for the prize from company. My feeling is that collectors who had Andrews filled out the set with later issued type 2 cards.
Here is a breakdown of type cards I have.
type 1 canceled- one card Andrews
type 2 canceled- 2 cards
type 1 uncanceled-25 cards
type 2 uncanceled- 8 cards

[murcerfan]

the type 2 colors tend to be slightly different too... I think, McKee schooled me on it a while back...the green and overall hue is "darker or cooler" (ie, more blue).

I could be wrong.

[Mrvintage]

I believe that the font on the back is larger on the type 1 cards as well. Has anyone else noticed that on some of the cards it seems like there is some sort of red ink bleeding onto the borders?