Opinion on Babe Ruth auto

[Westsiders]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to get some input on this Babe Ruth cut auto. The auto is coming from a very reputable company, and also comes with a full JSA LOA. But to my untrained eye, the "B" of Babe looks rather unique. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Scott Garner]

No way!

[travrosty]

could you please post the cert, only way to know if it really has a jsa cert is to see it ourselves.

[BigJJ]

No

[daves_resale_shop]

I don't like it

[MooseDog]

Not good.

[Westsiders]

Appreciate the responses. I don't have a copy of the JSA cert yet, but should fairly soon. This Ruth auto is a replacement for a previous Ruth auto card that there were issues with. Again, this is a very reputable card company and I have no doubt that the JSA cert is legit...but the auto itself looks a bit odd to me. Is it just the "B" that seems atypical, or is there more?

Again...appreciate all the help.

[Wymers Auction]

There is nothing good about that. I am not even an expert, but this one is kind of easy.

[Wymers Auction]

If this is the second bad Ruth than maybe they are not so legit. Just a thought.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

If this is the second bad Ruth than maybe they are not so legit. Just a thought.

+1

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Appreciate the responses. I don't have a copy of the JSA cert yet, but should fairly soon. This Ruth auto is a replacement for a previous Ruth auto card that there were issues with. Again, this is a very reputable card company and I have no doubt that the JSA cert is legit...but the auto itself looks a bit odd to me. Is it just the "B" that seems atypical, or is there more?

Again...appreciate all the help.

Well... It's not like people go out and forge the JSA cert, they kind of forge the other item.

[GrayGhost]

No chance thats good

[khkco4bls]

Absolutely not!

[ATP]

Last summer I took in a Ruth ball with a JSA cert. The auto looked horrible upon first inspection, and I couldn't believe it was certed. The JSA cert was laminated, and as I looked at it, it just didn't feel right. I tore the lamination apart and sure enough the cert was fake. They even went as far as to laminate two pieces of paper together and place a thin one in between with a fake watermark on it. Cut out a fake little sticker for the front, etc. Of course they used the same cert number as a real Ruth ball so when you look it up online it matches. It would have fooled a majority of non experienced autograph collectors. I was sure to forward all of the evidence on to JSA so that they were aware that someone is faking there certs. I don't think the individual I was dealing with was the person who made it, I think he was duped by someone else.

[Westsiders]

Thanks for the responses. I have the card company listening to my concerns about this auto, but if there is someone in this forum experienced enough to describe what is suspicious about this auto...it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, the card company is going to rely on the JSA cert.

Thanks guys!

[packs]

You should probably ask them to verify the cert is real. Then I would point them to this thread and let them know the level of experienced collectors there are on this forum.

[Westsiders]

The JSA cert has been verified to be legitmate, but obviously, that doesn't mean that the auto is good. I've been told that there are some very experienced Ruth collectors in this forum, so I'm hoping someone can give me some specifics as to what's suspicious about this auto. Again, thanks for the help and any insight is greatly appreciated.

[travrosty]

can we see the jsa cert?

[Westsiders]

I don't have the cert...but the card company does. But again, this card company has been around for a long time and is very reputable, so I'm confident that JSA has certified this auto, but I'm not sure that the auto is legit.

For anyone that is well versed in Ruth auto's, please let me know what you think about this auto. If suspicious, please let me know what exactly you think is problematic with the auto.

Thanks Again!

[jgmp123]

Why are you so concerned with what's wrong with the autograph, but are being so secretive about everything...who is the card company? How much are they asking? What is cert #?

[thecatspajamas]

If it's a replacement for a previous card that there were issues with, why would you agree to accept it as a replacement without seeing the JSA cert. yourself? And again, if you yourself are questioning whether the signature is good, why would you agree to accept it as a replacement regardless of what certification it comes with? Just get your money back, and then shop around for one that is acceptable. Without knowing how much you're into this transaction for, you have to ask yourself, "If this was the first signature offered to me, would I have purchased it at that price?" If the answer is "no," (and judging by your misgivings, it is), then it's not an acceptable substitute.

As a seller, I have never been comfortable with the scenario of locking a buyer into accepting "store credit" for something they had to return. Just get the item back, give them their money back, and then let them decide whether to use that money to continue to do business with you.

[Westsiders]

They're not asking anything...it's a replacement card. The photo is of the Ruth auto that they are/were going to replace it with. I know there are a ton of experienced collectors in this forum, just hoping that someone can give me more than "don't like it" or "not good". I am new to collecting Ruth autos, and would like to know more.

Thanks.

[daves_resale_shop]

"The JSA cert has been verified to be legitmate"

If this is the case, then simply post the cert # and or cert itself...

net54 is clearly a community of experts in the field who are willing and able to lend a helping hand when necessary... The people who are members of this forum bring tremendous value and input to the hobby...Please, if you are asking for advice, be willing to divulge information as to where the autograph is coming from, what the cert # is & who certified it... If you are looking for input to protect yourself, you should be willing to share information to protect us all...

Although I am novice autograph collector I will say that I find many things wrong with this Ruth (most notably what you pointed out).

Please, do us all a favor... post the legitimate cert # and or the cert itself...

Kindest Regards & Happy Collecting!
Dave Jr.

[Westsiders]

Actually, a long story. I orginally purchased the first item from a 3rd party...not the card company. After I recieved the card, I saw I few things about the auto that I wasn't comfortable with. I did a TON of research, and was 100% convinced that the auto on the original card was not authentic. After presenting my case to the card company, they agreed to replace the original card. The photo in this link is what they're offering as the auto in the replacement card.

When I first saw the photo that they sent, I loved the appearance of the auto (big, bold, etc..). But after studying it, I felt that the "B" of Babe is atypical. I'm getting a lot of responses saying that there's "no way" this auto is real, but no one is willing to elaborate. I'm trying to present a case to the card company, as well as educate myself...so any further details would be appreciated.

[Westsiders]

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

[jgmp123]

Who is the "card company"? If said card company is sick of dealing with you, the tell them to give you the cert # so you can verify yourself. If it is a full cert, there will be a picture of the auto on the JSA verification page when you type in the cert.

[daves_resale_shop]

[QUOTE=Westsiders;1092924]Actually, a long story. I orginally purchased the first item from a 3rd party...not the card company. After I recieved the card, I saw I few things about the auto that I wasn't comfortable with. I did a TON of research, and was 100% convinced that the auto on the original card was not authentic. After presenting my case to the card company, they agreed to replace the original card. The photo in this link is what they're offering as the auto in the replacement card.



I feel like this is becoming another insulting wagner thread (everyone please pardon me if I'm wrong)... The story is changing... why would a "card company" replace an autograph (with another) that was purchased from a
3rd party???

makes no sense...

Post the info requested or don't post at all

'Nuf Ced
-Dave Jr.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by travrosty

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

Agreed... I really really REALLY doubt JSA would EVER cert this auto. Prove it or stop posting it as JSA certed.

[Westsiders]

Set up???

Why? Who benefits? It a freaking chat room...

Here's why the card company has agreed to replace the item. They advertised the heck out of the Ruth auto card...as all companies do. Then someone bought a couple cases of the product, and opened a box containing the Ruth auto card. The card then hit the open market. I liked the card and knew that it came from a reputable company...so I bought it. After receiving the card and studying it, I became concerned with a few aspects of the auto (which was also JSA certified). I did a ton of research regarding my concerns, and presented the info to the card company. They beleived my concerns to be valid, so they offered to give me a replacement card. I told them that I would like to see that auto that would be in the card (prior to agreeing to it as a replacement). The photo in this link is the one that they sent.

I've told them that I have concerns with this auto, and was hoping for a little more info to strenthen my concerns...But no one in this forum is able and/or willing to provide me with any additional info.

Just trying to get a legit Babe Ruth auto card to give to my son.

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by travrosty

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

Set up??? Really???

I'm a consumer trying to protect myself.

And you've "been in the hobby too long" to have your "time wasted".
You're in a freaking chat room...get over yourself.

[thecatspajamas]

Okay, so when you say "card company," you mean "card manufacturer," not a "card dealer" as I think everyone here (myself included) thought you meant. Totally different situation.

[Westsiders]

So let me get this straight...

If it's JSA certified then it's real. But all the "experts" in this chat room will only render an opinion if they have a cert to go along with it. Please....

Very disappointed in this chat room. All you guys support each other in not being willing to give a detailed opinion. Doesn't take much expertise to say "don't like it" or "no good".
Once more explanation is asked for, you guys say "set up". WHHHHYYYY would someone set you up????? For what benefit???? This is silly.

And the "set up" and "wasting our time" comments are simply ridiculous.

You guys win.

You beat the new guy looking for help.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

So let me get this straight...

If it's JSA certified then it's real. But all the "experts" in this chat room will only render an opinion if they have a cert to go along with it. Please....

Very disappointed in this chat room. All you guys support each other in not being willing to give a detailed opinion. Doesn't take much expertise to say "don't like it" or "no good".
Once more explanation is asked for, you guys say "set up". WHHHHYYYY would someone set you up????? For what benefit???? This is silly.

And the "set up" and "wasting our time" comments are simply ridiculous.

You guys win.

You beat the new guy looking for help.

It seems to me that plenty of opinions were rendered. You then asked for specifics why, but weren't willing to provide any specifics of your own when asked. It's tit for tat around here, and nobody is required to render any opinions. Clearly there was a misunderstanding as to what kind of situation you were presenting, and it should be understandable for people to clam up when something smells fishy (as a result of the misunderstanding).

And by the way, there is a sub-forum specifically for autos (link at the top of the page). Also, being demanding and insulting to people offering free advice is generally considered bad form.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

So let me get this straight...

If it's JSA certified then it's real. But all the "experts" in this chat room will only render an opinion if they have a cert to go along with it. Please....

Very disappointed in this chat room. All you guys support each other in not being willing to give a detailed opinion. Doesn't take much expertise to say "don't like it" or "no good".
Once more explanation is asked for, you guys say "set up". WHHHHYYYY would someone set you up????? For what benefit???? This is silly.

And the "set up" and "wasting our time" comments are simply ridiculous.

You guys win.

You beat the new guy looking for help.

Chill out man. Nobody likes the autograph.. How you got anything else out of the posts is beyond me. Perhaps you should collect something else. The concern was that you were saying it was JSA certed. I don't believe JSA certed this..PERIOD. I don't think it is real and I think JSA would agree. Clear enough? This is my opinion anyway...for what it is worth. Also, how can a card company rely on a JSA CERT they have not produced? No one owes you anything.

[chaddurbin]

you are being very vague when it comes to critical information being given, and everyone can see through it. who is the company? if they're reputable they should have no problem giving you the jsa cert so you can verify with spence yourself. no one here believes it's a jsa piece, that's why they're being suspicious. you being evasive doesn't help your case any. bringing in your "son" doesn't make you any more sympathetic.

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Chill out man. Nobody likes the autograph.. How you got anything else out of the posts is beyond me. Perhaps you should collect something else. The concern was that you were saying it was JSA certed. I don't believe JSA certed this..PERIOD. I don't think it is real and I think JSA would agree. Clear enough? This is my opinion anyway...for what it is worth. Also, how can a card company rely on a JSA CERT they have not produced? No one owes you anything.

Guys...all the major card companies rely on third party authenticators (almost always JSA and PSA/DNA). None do there own "in-house" authentications....it transfers liability (for cases just like this).

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

you are being very vague when it comes to critical information being given, and everyone can see through it. who is the company? if they're reputable they should have no problem giving you the jsa cert so you can verify with spence yourself. no one here believes it's a jsa piece, that's why they're being suspicious. you being evasive doesn't help your case any. bringing in your "son" doesn't make you any more sympathetic.

Vague???

I've explained the entire situation. If I had the cert I would post it. This very reputable card company assured me that it's JSA certified.

And for those asking why I don't list the card companies name....it's to protect myself. If I came in here blasting this card company, what leverage would that leave me with? Remember, I'm still waiting for the replacement card. As it stands, I'm out a lot of $$, with no Ruth auto card to show for it. The card company agreed to show me the replacement auto before puting it in a card....and that is where the auto (photo'd) comes from. They have assured me that it's JSA certified...and it would be crazy for them to falsify that (simply wouldn't do it).

Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe there underlying circumstances that I'm not familiar...but set ups?? Really?? Why in the world would I make this story up?

[GrayGhost]

Nowhere near as knowledgeable as most on here, but for starters:

The B is hideous. the way the autograph trails off down and to the right is atypical most times, the a in Babe looks off to me, as does the h at the end.

Whether people do or don't like JSA, there is NO WAY they would certify that. If the card company can't provide a LETTER/PHOTO showing that item as certified by them, I would tell them they r being fraudulent and DEMAND A refund. Its a garbage Ruth, plain and simple.

Some of the most disrespected authenticators around wouldn't certify that. JSA surely wouldn't. So, if u r being honest with us, I'm being honest as to what you should do.

Scott Roberts

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

I don't have the cert...but the card company does. But again, this card company has been around for a long time and is very reputable, so I'm confident that JSA has certified this auto, but I'm not sure that the auto is legit.

For anyone that is well versed in Ruth auto's, please let me know what you think about this auto. If suspicious, please let me know what exactly you think is problematic with the auto.

Thanks Again!

This line always scares me... Especially when big brother is watching and 2+2=5...

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Vague???

I've explained the entire situation. If I had the cert I would post it. This very reputable card company assured me that it's JSA certified.

And for those asking why I don't list the card companies name....it's to protect myself. If I came in here blasting this card company, what leverage would that leave me with? Remember, I'm still waiting for the replacement card. As it stands, I'm out a lot of $$, with no Ruth auto card to show for it. The card company agreed to show me the replacement auto before puting it in a card....and that is where the auto (photo'd) comes from. They have assured me that it's JSA certified...and it would be crazy for them to falsify that (simply wouldn't do it).

Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe there underlying circumstances that I'm not familiar...but set ups?? Really?? Why in the world would I make this story up?

I try to stay out of things where I end up needing to post my name but going to give my opinion here... You should have no problem giving us the information, you're not protecting yourself or anyone "holding the name", I personally believe your intent is to deceive and you want Net54 to tell you exactly what is wrong with your forgery so you can forge another, better one and ask again. I've seen a lot of companies deal with replacements, Panini, Topps, UD - NONE OF THEM EVER gives a photograph of what they are replacing it with LET ALONE ask you if you think the autograph is good prior to it going in the card, they simply replace it (so you're telling me over hundreds and thousands of replacements they gave you priority and special treatment? I think not). There is no JSA cert on this auto, there never will be. I'm not even familiar with Ruth and even I can tell you it is a piss ass poor forgery.

You don't have a photo of this "previous" card, and your photograph is taken with a low quality camera, all the card companies have much more expensive cameras that would take better pictures (even though they didn't provide you with this one)

And you're right, it would be crazy of them to falsify statements, but I highly doubt it is them - I don't even think they are involved, I think it is you. Your photo is piss poor and comes from a cell phone. I'd suggest leaving and not coming back. The only reason you would argue with some of the most knowledgeable collector's in the hobby is because you already knew the answer (your forgery, not a card companies). Leave and don't come back.


S34N.B4551K

[Sean1125]

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com...autograph.html

[GrayGhost]

Wow. BAM..

Great work, Mr. Holmes.

[GKreindler]

Whoa.

[Scott Garner]

Yikes!
I love it!

[yanks12025]

Wasn't there a article written acouple years ago about someone getting a Ruth auto from a card company and it was fake. So they asked for another and it was also bad?? Anyone know what I'm talking about.

[jgmp123]

It seems Sean has put a rest to all of our initial suspicions....

[GrayGhost]

He came to the wrong place. Too many people here are analytical and also give a damn bout people trying to rip someone off, in any fashion.

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com...autograph.html

Nice work!

[Mr. Zipper]

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.

[jrlebert]

Wow. I could not be more impressed with the sleuthing that was done in this thread. Here I was, all set to be a little huffy at the fact that all this guy was looking for was answers on why his auto wasn't legit, and, man, am I glad I held my tongue.

Sean, I would have never thought of most of the points that you threw out here, and then to go and find the exact signature? Killed it.

Yet another reason why I belong to this forum. Just saying a quick thanks to everyone. Fantastic read.