Hidden Treasure...

[cozmokramer]

I've seen this article a million times on T206museum.com

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_81.html

Now I own the actual pack in the article and it feels pretty darn cool to own a piece of history, even if there isn't going to be a T206 inside.

Tax stamp is 1909. Factory 240, 1st District of PA. I believe that factory was known for producing T205s/T207s, but after the 1909 date I'm sure.

Thanks to Net54 for making this acquisition happen.

[rdwyer]

Factory 240, 1st District PA:

Recruit & Napolean boxes from 1912 only. (T207)

No idea if Factory 240 did Non-Sport.

[sdkammeyer]

CRACK IT, CRACK IT!!

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

CRACK IT, CRACK IT!!

+1

Sincerely, Clayton

[JBird]

Originally Posted by sdkammeyer

CRACK IT, CRACK IT!!

+1 but first grow a handle bar mustache put a top hat on a pair of spectacles and smoke one of the cigs while sitting in a saloon with revolving doors. get all up in the 1900's

[bbcard1]

You know it's an old article because he had a baseball card store with multiple customers in it.

[Matthew H]

Awesome, I remember reading that article in beckett when I was a kid.

[jcmtiger]

So, is this pack worth over $3000.00 even if there is no card inside?

Joe

[cozmokramer]

I remember reading the article too as a kid, thus what made me have to buy the pack now.

It came with two copies of the Beckett magazine from 1992 along with the Christies cataloge AND receipt from the buyer that purchased it from Christies in 1993.

Lets just say that I paid considerably less than the $3000 that was paid for it in 1992. Then the Wagner was $400k... given inflation to almost $3m now. The only problem is we've learned more since then about what packs contained what!

[canjond]

Cool pack. That said, I'm pretty sure the date is off. I don't have all of my notes in front of me (so I'll correct myself later if I'm wrong), but I believe L&M didn't acquire the Piedmont brand until at least 1911.

[canjond]

Went back and looked. It appears that L&M did not acquire the Piedmont brand until February 1912.

Guess the boys over at GAI overlooked that.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by canjond

Went back and looked. It appears that L&M did not acquire the Piedmont brand until February 1912.

Guess the boys over at GAI overlooked that.

Jon,

It's an inexact science.

[cozmokramer]

The red print on the tax stamp is 1909. No other year listed.

I do believe that they used these stamps in following years however.

[EvilKing00]

so there could be a wagner in there?????

[DaveW]

I'm sure glad that I don't own it. I know that I would just have to crack it open and see what's inside. Then, I would regret it ....

[Blitzu]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

The red print on the tax stamp is 1909. No other year listed.

I do believe that they used these stamps in following years however.

A tax stamp is incredibly misleading. You need to look for the blank ink stamp on top of the tax stamp which normally shows the year of manufacturing and from what factory. I have tobacco cans with stamps from 1926 that are stamped over from 1953.

This most definetly DOES NOT contain a T206. Sell it while you can

[cozmokramer]

Originally Posted by Blitzu

A tax stamp is incredibly misleading. You need to look for the blank ink stamp on top of the tax stamp which normally shows the year of manufacturing and from what factory. I have tobacco cans with stamps from 1926 that are stamped over from 1953.

This most definetly DOES NOT contain a T206. Sell it while you can

No black print, just the red print on the tax stamp.

I agree, 99.99999999% that there is no T206. But for the 0.00000001% that there could be a Wagner in it, I'll just hold onto it.

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

I'll just hold onto it.

Kudos for having more restraint than myself!! If I had a chance to solve that 20+ year mystery, I would have cracked that puppy the second I laid my hands on it!

It is a neat that in the last 20 years we have come sooooo far with the T206 information though.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

No black print, just the red print on the tax stamp.

I agree, 99.99999999% that there is no T206. But for the 0.00000001% that there could be a Wagner in it, I'll just hold onto it.

I agree - keep it and enjoy it. Between you and me, it was that Beckett article, with this pack pictured, that got me interested in cigarette packs in the first place. Frankly, it might be my favorite pack out ther e- because it's where it all began (at least for me on a personal level).

One thing I'm curious of - is it a 10-count pack? It's an interesting box. It looks more like a 12-count to me, but the scans could be misleading. If it was a twelve count, the tax stamp should say "Twelve" across the bottom OR there would a little circle with a "12" inside someone on the box.

[Runscott]

Just read the t206museum article. Finally, someone has the answer to the question we've been asking for years:

"Blair also said that Wagner wasn't against the card being released, and he would have consented to the card being distributed to kids for free, but he was against the concept of children having to purchase something to get the card."

[cozmokramer]

On the bottom of the tax stamp, the word "TWELVE" is printed.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

On the bottom of the tax stamp, the word "TWELVE" is printed.

Interesting.

As some might remember, there was a cigarette pack REA sold a few years back that was a 12-count pack and was purported to have been opened and contained a card inside. There was a decent discussion on this board about the pack because all available records indicate that 12-count packs were not produced until at least 1917 (this comes directly from revenue code records, not cigarette records).

I spoke with the consigner for a long time, and what was clear was that he opened the pack and he pulled a card out. To whether that card was inserted after the fact can never be proven definitively.

[Bestdj777]

Any way to x-ray or do a cat scan or something on the pack to get a sense of what is inside without opening it?

[cozmokramer]

I've searched and found those threads... I believe there was one where not only was there a card in the pack, but I believe it was a T206.

Is it possible that cards that were not distributed in packs 1909-1911, leftovers were then inserted in the following years in other packs?

This 12 count pack has a 1909 date on the tax stamp and no other date anywhere to be found.

Originally Posted by canjond

Interesting.

As some might remember, there was a cigarette pack REA sold a few years back that was a 12-count pack and was purported to have been opened and contained a card inside. There was a decent discussion on this board about the pack because all available records indicate that 12-count packs were not produced until at least 1917 (this comes directly from revenue code records, not cigarette records).

I spoke with the consigner for a long time, and what was clear was that he opened the pack and he pulled a card out. To whether that card was inserted after the fact can never be proven definitively.