Anyone know why this was rejected ?

[MikeGarcia]

I submitted 60 rather expensive 1930's cards at the Philly show 4 weeks ago and they came back in today's mail ; all the other Worch Cigar cards in the submission were correctly identified and slabbed but not this one ??
Is it ''UNC'' to PSA perhaps ? Do the specs guys at PSA not keep current with new discoveries ?; Bob Lemke has this exact same card pictured on an old blog post when he last updated the Worch Checklist
..... they kept the $15 grading fee though .
....Joe O. , if you're reading this , please go downstairs and educate your groundlings about the importance of putting Bob L. on speed-dial .
Oh , and you owe me fifteen dollars. Regards , Mike

[Bridwell]

If you call PSA, I would expect they would give you a $15 voucher for a 'no grade' of this type. I'm sure they are hesitant to slab a new addition to the checklist.

I see your frustration, though. Would be nice if they would call you to discuss it before just sending it back.

[Griffins]

I've had that happen before- it's just not in their database. I sent Joe the info directly and it got taken care of.

[Pat R]

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[FrankWakefield]

Pat, the Orth card has had its top border cut sometime after it was produced. That's a new cut at the top.

Mike, it seems grading companies grade cards, they don't identify cards (actually, I think they merely take people's money, but a bunch of folks think they at least grade cards). Seems to me that you should be able to send it back and get it graded for free at this point.

[Pat R]

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[steve B]

I don't know about PSA, but I know SGC will reject for undersize even with a factory cut, and for odd cuts even if they're factory. The miscut size is applied tighter top to bottom than side to side.

It's possible but unlikely that the Orth is cut short which allowed the upper edge to avoid being as worn as the bottom. So rejected as miscut rather than trimmed. (Although it really looks trimmed.)

I think you have to indicate that you want the "A" slab. Otherwise it gets returned with the explanation.
I'd really like to see both of them include the explanation along with the A grade, to me there's a big difference between EOT, undersize, and odd cuts they don't fell comfortable putting a number on.

Steve B

[FrankWakefield]

I think that Orth card came with a large top border... then something happened to it, a gouge or something that detracted from the card's appearance. So someone decided to cut that top edge back a bit, more to a normal size. Normally, all 4 sides would wear about equally (I'm talking 'in kid's pocket' normal wear of 100 years ago). That top has been cut since then.

[steve B]

That's the most likely thing. I have seen a few worn that way naturally, but just a few and all from the same couple collections.

Without having it in hand I'd have to go with trimmed.

Steve B

[Pat R]

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[steve B]

Interesting, maybe oversize at one time, lots of bigger ones got cut down to fit the early pages.

What's the top edge like? It should be slightly rounded on the front and have a bit of a ridge on the back. If not, then it's most likely trimmed.
If it looks good then maybe they didn't like the slight angle cut one end and straight on the other?

From the few rejects I've sent in it looks like anything that will appear trimmed in the holder gets rejected. I can understand that since it's hard to tell from scans and if it looks like they slab trimmed stuff it's not good for business. (Even though some trimmed stuff gets through anyway)

Steve B

[Pat R]

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[nolemmings]

Hi Mike,
Sorry your thread got hijacked. The Stratton card is from 1935, and the grading companies seem to have trouble with those. Both PSA and SGC appear to consider Worch's as having been issued in 1933 and 1934, although old SCD big books include some from 1935. It is possible that PSA actually researched the card and had doubts once it determined it was not from either 1933 or 1934 (Stratton's only season with St Paul was 1935). Of course, they could have just consulted an outdated checklist too.

I mentioned a couple of years ago that the only 1935 cards I have confirmed were of Saints and Millers players, and that it was possible those cards were not issued by Worch at all, but by either the teams or the local newspapers who are credited on the photos. Since I don't follow the set very closely any more, I do not know if others have debunked such a theory or not.

[Pat R]

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[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

I submitted 60 rather expensive 1930's cards at the Philly show 4 weeks ago and they came back in today's mail ; all the other Worch Cigar cards in the submission were correctly identified and slabbed but not this one ??
Is it ''UNC'' to PSA perhaps ? Do the specs guys at PSA not keep current with new discoveries ?; Bob Lemke has this exact same card pictured on an old blog post when he last updated the Worch Checklist
..... they kept the $15 grading fee though .
....Joe O. , if you're reading this , please go downstairs and educate your groundlings about the importance of putting Bob L. on speed-dial .
Oh , and you owe me fifteen dollars. Regards , Mike

.....I'd finally found enough evidence and documentation acceptable to the Spec's Dept.'s graybeards at PSA , some of whom evidently are actually older than 29 and are really , like us on 54 ,''real card guys''-------- so a '' new-to-the-hobby'' find is now officially into the pages of the Pop Report.... so I must say a big thank you to the members on this forum for their help and advice , and to the PSA guys who made the decision , and to them I must add that I'm sorry for some of the snarky and snide comments Dan has made and please lift his restraining order .

[nolemmings]

Congrats on your slabquest. Now maybe PSA will adjust its designation for the Worch set to get the date(s) right, since as I mentioned Stratton only played for St. Paul in 1935 and thus his picture in a Saints cap could not have been from 1933 (he didn't even begin pro ball until 1934). Oh well, baby steps. Very nice card, BTW.

Nice to see your card of Bob Fenner too. According to baseballreference.com, that gentlemen is still with us today, at 105 years young.

[Bugsy]

BEAUTIFUL CARDS!!!

I collect St. Paul Saints stuff and Worch put out some incredible Saints/Millers cards. I have been looking for the Larry Rosenthal for a while now and I have never even seen a scan of one. You will have to post an image if you ever get one.

Congratulations and good luck with the rest of the set!

Chris

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Nice to see your card of Bob Fenner too. According to baseballreference.com, that gentlemen is still with us today, at 105 years young.

I believe Fenner died in 1984. I have run into others that were never updated. Gene Trow was another St. Paul player that died a while ago that is still listed as living. Wouldn't it be fun to talk baseball with those guys!

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Now maybe PSA will adjust its designation for the Worch set to get the date(s) right, since as I mentioned Stratton only played for St. Paul in 1935 and thus his picture in a Saints cap could not have been from 1933 (he didn't even begin pro ball until 1934).

You are right about that too. I have a Pinky Hargrave with the Millers and he wasn't there until 1934.

I just checked a few other guys and Marty Hopkins last year with St. Paul was 1934, Jack Warner's first year with St. Paul was until 1934, and Eddie Leishman's only year with St. Paul was...1934.

[nolemmings]

Wouldn't it be fun to talk baseball with those guys!

Not really--at least not if it meant I was dead too

Sorry for hijacking, but Chris is this what the Hargrave you own looks like?
[IMG][/IMG]

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Not really--at least not if it meant I was dead too

Sorry for hijacking, but Chris is this what the Hargrave you own looks like?
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for the response. I actually had a Hargrave, but am dying to see a scan of the Rosenthal. He was from St. Paul, played for the Saints, then made it all the way to the Bigs. He was a local hero here, so it would be great to pick one up someday, but I haven't even seen a scan of one.