T207 interest picking up?

[Leon]

Hey Guys
I didn't want to hijack the Goodwin and Co. pickup thread so figured I would start another. As most know I don't collect sets but do have an interest in a lot of them. T207s seem to be getting a bit more interest lately. Just when I think collectors have finished their T207 sets and values could be coming down, we have an auction like this last Goodwin one, with a lot of strong prices. Are collectors going for multiple sets? Are collectors upgrading? It's almost hard to believe the longevity of the sustained prices. Also, are there new T207 collectors just coming into the fold and trying to acquire the really difficult cards when they come up? It's an interesting set in that it has no Cobb, Honus, Matty or Cy yet has a lot of interest. BTW, since the small group of Red Crosses sold, and one or two of those changed hands right after their sale, I have not seen any of them sell. Looks like they stuck. Just some random thoughts...What's going on?

[William Todd]

I have a great interest in T207 and do have a complete set, except for Lewis no emblem, but have many of the tough cards with more than two of the four backs they are possible with. Those being Broadleaf, Cycle, Anon VA Factory 25 and Anon La Factory 3. I was able through a friend to purchase 70 of Lionel Carter's T207s 4 years ago , after collecting them for 15 years and they have beautiful surfaces. The difficulty with these is twofold, scarcity and condition. They are a unique set.img070.jpg

[William Todd]

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[atx840]

I really like the backs on these and would like to get a cycle one day, RC seems highly unlikely.

Nice card Leon, maybe the Lowdermilk will be shown

[ullmandds]

here's what rowdy lowdy looked like the last time I saw him...I'll be seeing him in the REA catalog next spring!

[freakhappy]

Beautiful T207's, William Todd! Although I don't have an interest in them right now, I can see myself picking up a few in the future...I love the simplicity of the design and the player history on the back.

[sb1]

The Lewis No Emblem is without a doubt the toughest card in the set, there are only a handful known to exist and for that matter the regular Lewis is much tougher than Miller or Lowdermilk.

[William Todd]

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I think most people discarded these cards creating the rarity.

[Jcfowler6]

Love the way the T207s look.

[William Todd]

[at

I love it when they refer to Shoeless Joe on the back of a card.

[ullmandds]

great cards guys...love the JJ reference too!!!!1

[CobbSpikedMe]

One thing I really like a lot about this set is that it has full body action poses. Something that is not found in T206 for some reason. I've always thought T206's would have looked great with some full body shots. This is something I also like about the T210 set. Some of my favorite T207's are these poses.

Best,

AndyH


.

[William Todd]

Scott is correct, the Lewis no Emblem is the toughest, rarer than many of the rare T206's , but he never played a major league game , just a very rare baseball card!

[William Todd]

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[William Todd]

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Joe Jackson again on a Hank Butcher card.

[Leon]

Back types...

[William Todd]

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Black ink, Brown ink and red ink

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by Leon

T207s seem to be getting a bit more interest lately....What's going on?

T207s have their diehard collectors and rightfully so. It's an interesting set with multiple backs, HOFs (even if it excludes some big names like Cobb) and rough/rare cards. However, they've never seemed to garner the respect or popularity as other T-cards, like T206s or T205s. Many are turned off by their dull, brown backgrounds among other factors.

With that said, I think the recent spike in interest is due to the Goodwin auction and the buzz that comes with large lots of any one card type being auctioned off at the same time. The recent publicity might spark some new collectors, but I'd be surprised if T207s really took off in popularity.

[William Todd]

I hope you are correct in your analysis....

[bigwinnerx]

Originally Posted by William Todd

I have a great interest in T207 and do have a complete set, except for Lewis no emblem, but have many of the tough cards with more than two of the four backs they are possible with. Those being Broadleaf, Cycle, Anon VA Factory 25 and Anon La Factory 3. I was able through a friend to purchase 70 of Lionel Carter's T207s 4 years ago , after collecting them for 15 years and they have beautiful surfaces. The difficulty with these is twofold, scarcity and condition. They are a unique set.Attachment 80579

This card is just....wow. Philly collector here, and this is just fantastic.

[sb1]

Just so I don't have to do the math, the set was complete?? it looks like there were 202 lots of T207's which would account for a couple of variations but not all. AND, if someone has idle time on their hands, what did the entire group realize?? $40-50?? there was amlost $29 in four figure cards, but a lot of cheap ones and some unsolds

[William Todd]

around $76,500 with BP, net to seller around $65,000, did the math at my desk today...

[sb1]

last one for tonight for me

[calvindog]

Am I correct that the SGC pop report does not break down the set per back?

Oh wait, see it now.

[William Todd]

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[tbob]

Leon- to answer your question, yes, there are collectors out there who have completed the set and love the brownies so much they are going after additional sub-sets. I am sure I am not the only one out there with a complete set who is also chasing down a complete Cycle back subset. Plus, how can you pass up a nice Jimmy Block when they are so rarely offered, especially in decent shape?
To answer the question about Lewis without emblem, I think it is rarer than ANY T206 card, and that includes Magie, Plank and Wagner. You might say that a particular card with a specific back like a Drum or Uzit may be tougher but eliminating back variations, it is tougher than any T206...

[ctownboy]

In the 1990's, when I first started getting into pre - War cards (and had the money to start buying them) a veteran collector (my mentor) suggested I stay with T206's and NOT get into T207's. At the time, he said this because he thought T207's were ugly and that there weren't many people collecting them. So, even though they were inexpensive, he didn't think they would appreciate in value as much as T206's and that there wouldn't be as many collectors interested in them if I were to buy some and then want/need to sell them.

He told me all of this while at a local auction where there were a bunch of VG T207's selling for between $5 and $15 per card. Since that time, I have found what I like to collect (rare items - at least more rare than common T206's) and wish I had bought some of those T207's.

Also, a couple of years ago, I was at another local auction and was distracted while a VG condition red Cycle backed T207 was selling. It ended at $30 dollars....

David

[sb1]

At one time I tried to locate as many No Emblem Lewis as I could find thru auction records, etc and came up with less than 6. Not sure how accurate that number may be now, lets try and do some homework. If anyone has one or a scan or record, please post it and perhaps we can come up with a new estimate. I believe it will be less than 10.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sb1

At one time I tried to locate as many No Emblem Lewis as I could find thru auction records, etc and came up with less than 6. Not sure how accurate that number may be now, lets try and do some homework. If anyone has one or a scan or record, please post it and perhaps we can come up with a new estimate. I believe it will be less than 10.

You know where a few of those are and they won't have scans posted. You might consider counting the ones you have actually handled, or sold, but won't make the thread scans. If you are going for "as accurate" as possible that is going to be the only way to do it. You might not have anymore Lewis no-emblem scans posted for all I know, besides the one you posted above.

[RCMcKenzie]

I've always really liked this set because it has so many permutations. Right now I have a McBride (super-common) type, and have just bought a Ray Morgan (more difficult imo) and Clyde Milan Napolean (really are there more than 5 of these) to add to my collection. I once had the Barker writing Lewis emblem card from bst for about a year, but realised I would never complete the set so I sent it on to better pastures.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

One thing I really like a lot about this set is that it has full body action poses. Something that is not found in T206 for some reason. I've always thought T206's would have looked great with some full body shots. This is something I also like about the T210 set. Some of my favorite T207's are these poses.

Best,

AndyH


.

me too

[caramelcard]

I think interest has been picking up for years. It's tempting for set collectors because it's a relatively small number of cards and you can get started fast. Prices remain steady (for the mean time) because a lot of guys are constantly upgrading or still looking for the tough cards for their set.

I've been upgrading and recently replaced several tough cards, but it's a never ending process.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Leon

You know where a few of those are and they won't have scans posted. You might consider counting the ones you have actually handled, or sold, but won't make the thread scans. If you are going for "as accurate" as possible that is going to be the only way to do it. You might not have anymore Lewis no-emblem scans posted for all I know, besides the one you posted above.

These people all got them from somewhere, most in major auctions, so most will be readily apparent. Of all the top secret collections I am aware of, only one has the No Eblem and it was sold publicly. I think we could get a few scans, the card is so tough that three of the most advanced collectors I know, do not have it. We'll see if any surface.

[William Todd]

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img2787.jpgThe reason which originally attracted me to T207 was the fact that the Red Sox won the World Series in 1912 in the new Fenway Park. Although growing up in the NYC area in the 1950's-1960's with Mantle, Ford, Berra etc; I raised kids who became Red Sox fans and we went to Fenway Park. The T207 set has Red Sox and Braves. Check out the 1912 stats for Joe Wood.

[William Todd]

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[bbcard1]

Over the past five years or so, I have seen T207s seem to rollercoaster up and down more that any other prewar issue.

[sox1903wschamp]

Very nice William. Nice to see some Lionel Carter T207 Red Sox and even a Nagy.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by tonyo

me too

Very nice

[frohme]

Finally completed the set in 2010 after 4+ years pursuing it. Had much help along the from other board members, many of whom had already completed it at least once.

My particular devil is/was the Donnelly - this was my last and best card.



Couple of highlights along the way - Broadleaf class




and some tough cards for the grade Recruits:

[William Todd]

Great cards Mike

[sb1]

Sure makes the offered set in Goodwin pale in comparison.

[frohme]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

Bill, glad to see your effort continues - fighting through competition from sub-set builders will always be a challenge when chasing the larger set. There are others that are - whether they know/admit it or not - pursuing the same goal.

Scott - don't know if you remember or not, but I got a bulk lot from you from the B/S/T back about 5 years ago - that was a real kick-start to the set for me - thank you again. I haven't reviewed the Lewis (no-emblem) content on the board in a while, but was surprised to hear your thoughts that the population is probably less than 10.

While these these sorts of discussions often turn in to show and tell (and I had to join in this time) I really get in to the other aspects of the sets - T207 in particular. As you know, this set has enough intricacies to keep it interesting and like its more popular brother, more is being learned all the time with new cards appearing when least expected (Red Cross find, Heritage Anon group).

Though I have been fortunate enough to pick up some nice cards - often in group purchases with other board members - I'm finding the research more and more interesting and look forward to more of that. On the plus side, that aspect of the hobby is infinitely more cost effective.

--
Mike

[sb1]

There could be more than 10 Lewis No Emblems, it appears PSA has graded 7(and probably no crack outs) and SGC at least 2(either of which could have been PSA cards, but unlikely, perhaps more. There are at least two raw ones, so maybe I should say 10-20, still a very rare card in any issue with numbers of this small.

Board members please post one if you have it.

[frohme]

Scott,

Thanks - wasn't questioning, just curious. I'd only seen the couple that have been auctioned off over the last few years in the major auction houses and had never looked at old auction reports for details on others. Haven't been involved with the set enough to have long-term memory on the subject.

Would love to see scans as well if any one (else) has 'em.

--
Mike

[Bridwell]

Some of the T207's are very hard to find, in decent condition. Certainly the Irv Lewis cards are super tough. However there are others almost as scarce as the Lewis. If someone is working on a set, and wants a nice VG-EX (or better) example of each card, there seem to be less than 10 in existence of some of the players. Looking at SGC and PSA Pop reports can be pretty interesting. Eliminate the Poor to VG cards and see how many are left.

There are a few advanced collectors with poor to VG sets out there but how about a VG-EX to NMT set? That is a monster of a challenge, hence the auction battles for nice upgrades. T207's are prone to miscuts and corner chipping more than T206 from my experience. The light glossy front surface is prone to cracking or crazing. The backs are soft and seem to absorb dirt and stains. There are a large number of players that were not well known, and the artwork wasn't full color like other sets of the era. All part of the recipe for some super rare cards today. I picked up 6 in the Goodwin auction, but was outgunned on another 20 of the nicer ones. Congrats to the consignor who did very well.