Paper loss on Front = PSA 6

This is just plain silly. I can't imagine what ailment the grader has

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T-205-E...#ht_500wt_1205


Lets see those high grade paper loss examples that should be low grade

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Lets see those PSA high grade paper loss examples that should be low grade

fyp.

[CMIZ5290]

are you sure that's not the scan? maybe, tiny pieces of paper that had not been wiped off the holder? no way PSA missed that if it's paper loss.....

[SetBuilder]

I have a raw T206 Hulswitt card that looks like a PSA 8. Super sharp corners, no stains, excellent color and centering, etc. The only negative is a tiny speck of paper loss about 0.5mm in diameter (the tip of a pencil) on the front of the card, near the back of his head.

I'm sending it to PSA next month. I'm curious as to what grade it will get. Hopefully a 4 or 5?

[CMIZ5290]

Manny...my guess would be a psa 4. It's tough to get a psa 5 with obvious paper loss

[Matthew H]

A tiny spec of paper loss downgrading an otherwise NM card to P-F is ridiculous IMO.

[ullmandds]

IMPOSSIBLE...PSA would never miss paper loss...NEVER!!!!!

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

I can't imagine what ailment the grader has

Maybe he thought it was Sunday.

[CMIZ5290]

My point about tiny pieces of paper not wiped off happened to me on a card i bought from goodwin (nov. 11, 2011, lot #373). It is a psa 6 kid elberfeld that appeared to have several defects on the card. It was in fact tiny pieces of paper that had not cleaned off. Might be why it realized the price it did....

[E93]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

A tiny spec of paper loss downgrading an otherwise NM card to P-F is ridiculous IMO.

+1 JimB

That is a gorgeous card!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Lets see those high grade paper loss examples that should be low grade

I've shown this before, but his entire left ear is missing:



No paper loss, but here is a nice example of what a PSA 10 should look like:

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Maybe he thought it was Sunday.

Lmao. Let's just hope he got in the correct car to go home

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11
Maybe he thought it was Sunday.

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Lmao. Let's just hope he got in the correct car to go home

Wait a minute.... Was this card Also on the BST?

[esd10]

i read in a book called the card about the t206 honus wagner and from what they said its impossible for psa to look at every card from top to bottom they get. it was like 10 seconds or less a card and thats without hollidays,lunch and bathroom breaks and 365 days a year so i doubt every card unless its very high end gets the utmost attention that people pay all that money for. I'm not bashing psa they do a good job most of the time but when you see certain things it makes you wonder what they are doing and who is looking at the cards. Net54 should start a grading service and have the most advanced collectors look and slab our cards i know i would use it in a heart beat.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

A tiny spec of paper loss downgrading an otherwise NM card to P-F is ridiculous IMO.

I guess I'm in the minority ... IMO the point of TPG should be to grade the card technically. Sometimes those in the hobby confuse the technical grade of a card with its beauty. If you grade a card a "5" how will a person know it has paperloss, even a spec?

The beauty of a card is subjective. The technical aspect is (well, should be) objective.

Hobbyists often error, IMO, by putting a value on a card based on its grade. Buy the card, not the grade! Let the TPG tell you it has paperloss, or a crease, or an ink mark, or that its trimmed. That stuff is valueable when buying online.

Rob

Originally Posted by esd10

i read in a book called the card about the t206 honus wagner and from what they said its impossible for psa to look at every card from top to bottom they get. it was like 10 seconds or less a card and thats without hollidays,lunch and bathroom breaks and 365 days a year so i doubt every card unless its very high end gets the utmost attention that people pay all that money for. I'm not bashing psa they do a good job most of the time but when you see certain things it makes you wonder what they are doing and who is looking at the cards. Net54 should start a grading service and have the most advanced collectors look and slab our cards i know i would use it in a heart beat.

I have often thought of this. I have even went as far as designing a slab to be black/charcoal in color and close to the same size as PSA's. A bright blue and white flip. If the card was crossed over the info of the grading co, grade, and cert number to be included on the back to cut down on pop report issues. The slab would also be made of lexan and sealed air tight. You would have to cut it open to free a card. For those who want protection but don't care about grades we would give an A grade with a notation stating numerical or altered. If altered it would have a code to show the alteration such as 3BT: lower left corner, bottom edge, trim. I would ask guys like Dan mackee, Ted z, and several others for help in authenticating and possibly grading certain issues. Who cares if we are collectors. We care more than them anyways and can give honest expert opinions. Also pricing structures would be flat rate wether its a Wagner or common. Your choice to pay for standard or expedited grading service. Who knows. If I had enough backing I would give it a shot. I have been working on a scanner type machine since 05 for grading cards. Needless to say I am electronically challenged and this is a feat that will cost in the $500,000 range for machine and program each. That's the quote from last yr

[Matthew H]

Why can't authentication be done with a detailed photograph and no slab?

[Harford20]

I may be what happened recently to a T205 Marquard for me. PSA graded the card a PSA 3, but when the slab returned, there was a large piece of paper loss on the maroon colored background and a free floating piece in the slab.

I was told that, especially with the T205 cards due to the surface, that the "vibration" associated with the final slab process has frequently broken paper loose that was not noted by the graders.

I was asked to send the card back in; they removed the card from the holder, payed me for the cost of the card and the grading fee and sent the card back in a card saver. They offered to slab as Authentic, but then I would not be reimbursed the card cost.

This card may have a "flake" inside the slab.

Dave

Originally Posted by Harford20

I may be what happened recently to a T205 Marquard for me. PSA graded the card a PSA 3, but when the slab returned, there was a large piece of paper loss on the maroon colored background and a free floating piece in the slab.

I was told that, especially with the T205 cards due to the surface, that the "vibration" associated with the final slab process has frequently broken paper loose that was not noted by the graders.

I was asked to send the card back in; they removed the card from the holder, payed me for the cost of the card and the grading fee and sent the card back in a card saver. They offered to slab as Authentic, but then I would not be reimbursed the card cost.

This card may have a "flake" inside the slab.

Dave

Well thats great news. Not only do they suck as graders but they have sucky machines that will damage your cards for you

[3-2-count]

I'm simply amazed at how many PSA fans continue to state every time someone points out paper loss on an EX or better graded card it just has to be something else. C'mon fellas let's get real can we? All TPG-ing companies (PSA, SGC, etc) all have some suspect cards in their holders. ALL OF THEM!!!!! To defend this otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.

[dherm360]

this is the sellers explaination

Q: Hi is that spot up top by the C paperloss or just the scan... Thanks RP May-22-12
A: Thought it might be paperloss at first look but a closer look under a magnifying glass and it appears to be a print defect. Apparently not severe enough to be identified as such though by PSA with the PD they assign for such problems in the description tag. Hope that helps

He must work for PSA.

[glynparson]

ill trust dan and ted for authenticty issues, but i would not trust them as unequivocally on alterations or technical grading. Not that I think they'd make some of the dishonest maneuvers being done in my opinion by the grading services. I just don't think they've dealt in the highend market enough to detect some of the subtle alterations being performed to enhance grades.Team them with Kevin and someone else versed in alteration detection and it would be a tremendous service. It would probably fail though as many dealers making their living in high-end cards could get very little through. And would unmercifully bash the service.

[CMIZ5290]

Just to throw something out there about tpg, i just bought a psa 5 frank chance that looks like a 7.5 or 8.... I can't find any paper loss or wrinkles, this card just simply looks much nicer than the grade. I know alot of people think that i support psa, but where they truly frustrate me is cards that seem to be undergraded. I then turn around and see high rollers (who shall remain nameless) that get every benefit of the doubt with grades. Having said all of that, if you are in the hobby for return on your money when you cash in, psa will bring the top dollar on vintage cards, hands down.....

[ullmandds]

SAD but TRUE!

"Having said all of that, if you are in the hobby for return on your money when you cash in, psa will bring the top dollar on vintage cards, hands down..... "

[rp12367]

Originally Posted by dherm360

this is the sellers explaination

Q: Hi is that spot up top by the C paperloss or just the scan... Thanks RP May-22-12
A: Thought it might be paperloss at first look but a closer look under a magnifying glass and it appears to be a print defect. Apparently not severe enough to be identified as such though by PSA with the PD they assign for such problems in the description tag. Hope that helps

That was me who asked, I was going to post his reply, just got super busy workwise. He must work for PSA LOL... Thx Dave for posting.