1934 goudey uncut sheet including lajoie

[g_vezina_c55]

Anyone have a good resolution picture of the uncutt sheet 34 goudey including the Lajoie 106 card ?

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Anyone have a good resolution picture of the uncutt sheet 34 goudey including the Lajoie 106 card ?

Is there such a thing that is known in the hobby? I cannot say I have seen or heard of the existance of a sheet like this but I dont have the funds to dive into pre-war like others do so I dont pay the closest attention to this type of stuff. I too, would love to see a picture of this item if it does exist.

[ullmandds]

I've never seen or heard of one either?

[g_vezina_c55]

the pic is bad quality... it is why i ask for a better quality pic

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=12034

[ullmandds]

well look at that!!!

[T206Collector]

From the 2001 Mastro Auction....

[Matt]

You could ask Rob L if he has a photo/scan of the sheet he brokered. If you he does, please post it here.

[tedzan]

Here is a larger display of the 1934 GOUDEY Hi #s sheet. This 25-card sheet was a dramatic change in the printing format. The 1933 Goudey set
comprises of TEN 24-card sheets. The Low # series in the 1934 GOUDEY set was also printed on 24-card sheets. This sheet is extra special.





TED Z

[g_vezina_c55]

This Lajoie is realy OC

[rainier2004]

I guess I don't understand. I thought goudey originally printed their '33 set w/o the lajoie all together. After awhile and customer complaints goudey printed up #106 and i sent it out to unhappy folks missing the single card. Was it printed with the '34 goudey set? I thought goudey has 3 printings:1)239 1933 goudeys 2) the lajoies 3) 34 goudey set. Obviously I am wrong...

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I guess I don't understand. I thought goudey originally printed their '33 set w/o the lajoie all together. After awhile and customer complaints goudey printed up #106 and i sent it out to unhappy folks missing the single card. Was it printed with the '34 goudey set? I thought goudey has 3 printings:1)239 1933 goudeys 2) the lajoies 3) 34 goudey set. Obviously I am wrong...

Until i saw this sheet, i tought same think of you

[milkit1]

I heard charlie sheen owned one and it was stolen and cut up?

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by milkit1

I heard charlie sheen owned one and it was stolen and cut up?

I read same things this afternoon, the stupidité thieft destroy à 1 of 3 item!!

[atx840]

What a beautiful thing to see uncut, hopefully one day a few T card sheets show up.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I guess I don't understand. I thought goudey originally printed their '33 set w/o the lajoie all together. After awhile and customer complaints goudey printed up #106 and i sent it out to unhappy folks missing the single card. Was it printed with the '34 goudey set? I thought goudey has 3 printings:1)239 1933 goudeys 2) the lajoies 3) 34 goudey set. Obviously I am wrong...

The Lajoie wasn't availible until 1934. This sheet layout has been known for a long time. I remember reading about it 20 or so years ago

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

The Lajoie wasn't availible until 1934. This sheet layout has been known for a long time. I remember reading about it 20 or so years ago

So goudey onll has 2 printings? One for the 33s and other for the 34s which included the lajoie?

[tedzan]

The 1933 GOUDEY set comprises of 239 cards which were printed on ten 24-card sheets. The #144 Babe Ruth card was Double-Printed.
There was NO card of Lajoie available in 1933.

In the Summer of 1934, GOUDEY printed the Lajoie (#106) card on their High # series sheet (as shown here). Collectors of 1933 Goudey
cards could write a letter to GOUDEY (Boston, Mass) and request this Lajoie card.


1934 GOUDEY High # series sheet (includes Lajoie)




TED Z

[brianp-beme]

Does anyone know if the 1934 Goudey high numbered sheet was printed WITHOUT the Lajoie? If so, was it a 6 x 4 configuration, or perhaps was one of the cards double printed? And has anyone noted any of the 1934 high numbers to be more readily available?

Brian ?

[barrysloate]

The 96 card set would suggest four 24 card sheets. If they were printed in sheets of 25, then there are three double prints. Does anybody know which cards they are?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The 96 card set would suggest four 24 card sheets. If they were printed in sheets of 25, then there are three double prints. Does anybody know which cards they are?

Barry

The first 72 cards of the 1934 GOUDEY set were printed on 24-card sheets.

To change the Hi # card's sheet to a 25-card format to include Lajoie must of been quite a modification for Goudey.

Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Does anyone know if the 1934 Goudey high numbered sheet was printed WITHOUT the Lajoie? If so, was it a 6 x 4 configuration, or perhaps was one of the cards double printed? And has anyone noted any of the 1934 high numbers to be more readily available?

Brian ?

Over the years I put together 2 complete 1934 GOUDEY sets; and, I can tell you that the 24 Hi #'s were tougher to find than the Low #'s.

It's my experience that the 12 lower Hi #'s with the "Chuck Klein says" comments (on bottom of each card) are somewhat tougher to find
than the 12 upper Hi #'s with "Lou Gehrig says".





TED Z

[barrysloate]

Thanks Ted, that's interesting. To have to change the size and format of the sheets in midstream is quite an undertaking.

[tedzan]

Maybe not such a major change in in Goudey's format sheet format.

Because their 1936 BB set consists of 25 cards. I cannot speak for the 1935 BB set, as you know, it is too complex with all its front / back permutations.

TED Z

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by tedzan

It's my experience that the 12 lower Hi #'s with the "Chuck Klein says" comments (on bottom of each card) are somewhat tougher to find than the 12 upper Hi #'s with "Lou Gehrig says". TED Z

I have 2 sets as well and completely agree about the Chuck Klein says cards...

[brianp-beme]

A question...does this mean that the only known complete sheets of the 1934 Goudey high numbers contain the Lajoie, or are there any out there without Lajoie? I always assumed that Goudey did a special, limited printing run with the Lajoie. If it was a full production run with the Lajoie on every sheet, wouldn't it have been a nightmare/incredibly impractical to sort out the Lajoie cards after they had been cut?

Brian

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

A question...does this mean that the only known complete sheets of the 1934 Goudey high numbers contain the Lajoie, or are there any out there without Lajoie? I always assumed that Goudey did a special, limited printing run with the Lajoie. If it was a full production run with the Lajoie on every sheet, wouldn't it have been a nightmare/incredibly impractical to sort out the Lajoie cards after they had been cut?

Brian

And wouldnt that make the Lajoie as common as the 1934 high #'s?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

A question...does this mean that the only known complete sheets of the 1934 Goudey high numbers contain the Lajoie, or are there any out there without Lajoie? I always assumed that Goudey did a special, limited printing run with the Lajoie. If it was a full production run with the Lajoie on every sheet, wouldn't it have been a nightmare/incredibly impractical to sort out the Lajoie cards after they had been cut?

Brian

I collect uncut sheets of all sorts, and I have not seen a 1934 Goudey high # sheet without Lajoie in 30+ years. I would venture to say it does not exist.

Therefore theoretically, the population of the Lajoie card should equal any given 1934 Hi # card (card #73-96). SGC pop report data appears to support
this fact.

Back in 1982, I heard a story that Jefferson Burdick acquired 25 - Lajoie cards when he wrote a letter requesting them from the Goudey Gum Co.


TED Z

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I collect uncut sheets of all sorts, and I have not seen a 1934 Goudey high # sheet without Lajoie in 30+ years. I would venture to say it does not exist.

Therefore theoretically, the population of the Lajoie card should equal any given 1934 Hi # card (card #73-96). SGC pop report data appears to support
this fact.

Back in 1982, I heard a story that Jefferson Burdick acquired 25 - Lajoie cards when he wrote a letter requesting them from the Goudey Gum Co.


TED Z

In the lionel carter sales dvd , he said burdick got 10 copy of lajoie and send 1 copy to mr carter.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I collect uncut sheets of all sorts, and I have not seen a 1934 Goudey high # sheet without Lajoie in 30+ years. I would venture to say it does not exist.

Therefore theoretically, the population of the Lajoie card should equal any given 1934 Hi # card (card #73-96). SGC pop report data appears to support
this fact.

TED Z

Ted - Thanks for all the clarification on this. I honestly think it sucks to have the Lajoie as "rare" as the 1934 high numbers...it almost feels like the Lajoie should be part of the '34 set irregardless of the # of front format. How in the world is it a '33 then?

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Ted - Thanks for all the clarification on this. I honestly think it sucks to have the Lajoie as "rare" as the 1934 high numbers...it almost feels like the Lajoie should be part of the '34 set irregardless of the # of front format. How in the world is it a '33 then?

Isn't the distribution the key, though? The 1934 high numbers were distributed...with the 1934 Goudey issue. The Lajoie was only distributed to those people who (in 1933 or 1934) wrote to Goudey complaining about the lack of the card existing. As such, it was not inserted into packs and distributed in the normal methodology.

Although one could reasonably speculate that the number of Lajoie's produced was the same as the number of 1934 high numbers, I think the distribution methodology makes it more likely that the # of surviving copies of the Lajoie are fewer.

I don't think the population report is necessarily a good indicator here, as a Lajoie in 1 is worth lots of money, whereas a high number in 1 is worth ~$20-

[Steve D]

I recall reading several years ago about a 1933 Goudey #106 Leo Durocher. Do you Ted, or does anyone else know how many of those exist, and what the story behind them is?

Steve

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I recall reading several years ago about a 1933 Goudey #106 Leo Durocher. Do you Ted, or does anyone else know how many of those exist, and what the story behind them is?

Steve

i also read about this card, it was obtain via a contact at goudey company....

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

In the lionel carter sales dvd , he said burdick got 10 copy of lajoie and send 1 copy to mr carter.

The source of the story I heard 30 years ago was Rob Lifson.....who said it was a total of 25 - Lajoie cards.


TED Z

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The source of the story I heard 30 years ago was Rob Lifson.....who said it was a total of 25 - Lajoie cards.


TED Z

Ah ok, my source is the lionel carter dvd auction made by mastro, at 1 time in the dvd the guy who work for mastro said the word of lionel carter and he said burdick have 10 copy of the lajoie card so he send 1 lajoie to lionel carter..

here is the card

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=lionel...74&tx=27&ty=72

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by philliesphan

Isn't the distribution the key, though? Although one could reasonably speculate that the number of Lajoie's produced was the same as the number of 1934 high numbers, I think the distribution methodology makes it more likely that the # of surviving copies of the Lajoie are fewer.

I don't think the population report is necessarily a good indicator here, as a Lajoie in 1 is worth lots of money, whereas a high number in 1 is worth ~$20-

Value is also a poor indicator. Here are the facts: There are 106 graded 1933 Lajoie's between sgc and psa (I need it easy and kept it to 2 TPG's). There are between 130 and 210 graded copies of every 1934 high# (73-96). The Hoag has 144 copies, #94 rolfe 194 and #90 cuyler 184 graded copies (3 of the more expensive higher #'s) compared to 844 graded copies of #37 gehrig, THE most expensive card.

Id think the more expensive cards would have a higher percentage graded. This gets into Zachs post from the other day, but I wonder what percentage of Lajoies are graded. It seems that 50-60% of my high #'ed 1934 goudeys, and thats 2 sets plus some triples and quads, were slabbed, a higher percentage than numbers 1-72. My point is there are a lot more Lajoies than I thought and the price of the card poorly resembles its "rarity" (I know, another thread). Its "cool" factor is the primary force behind the price. I guess Im just behind the curve here...

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Value is also a poor indicator. Here are the facts: There are 106 graded 1933 Lajoie's between sgc and psa (I need it easy and kept it to 2 TPG's). There are between 130 and 210 graded copies of every 1934 high# (73-96). The Hoag has 144 copies, #94 rolfe 194 and #90 cuyler 184 graded copies (3 of the more expensive higher #'s) compared to 844 graded copies of #37 gehrig, THE most expensive card.

Id think the more expensive cards would have a higher percentage graded. This gets into Zachs post from the other day, but I wonder what percentage of Lajoies are graded. It seems that 50-60% of my high #'ed 1934 goudeys, and thats 2 sets plus some triples and quads, were slabbed, a higher percentage than numbers 1-72. My point is there are a lot more Lajoies than I thought and the price of the card poorly resembles its "rarity" (I know, another thread). Its "cool" factor is the primary force behind the price. I guess Im just behind the curve here...

I think the lajoie card is rare than the other high number. Yes probably the same number was printed but not same number distributed. All high number 34 goudey was distributed in pack. I think many printed lajoie was never distributed and perhaps destroyed by goudey when all complaint customers where satisfied with her 33 lajoie

[Rob D.]

Population reports aside (even though in this case, they support what I'm about to say, which means you're supposed to use them, I guess), once I started searching in earnest to purchase a Goudey Lajoie, it became pretty clear to me that this famed "rarity" is pretty available. For many years the Lajoie was grouped with the T206 Wagner and Plank as the hobby's "big three." There's simply no comparison.

Obviously, when comparing the Lajoie with other 1933 Goudeys, it's tough. But if you want one -- especially a fairly high grade example -- and you have the money, you won't be waiting long. I think part of the allure of the card is the fact it supposedly was available only by writing the company. In my opinion, either a heck of a lot of people took pen to paper, or Goudey Lajoies were made available in ways we do not know about.

[g_vezina_c55]

[QUOTE=Rob D.;991807e. For many years the Lajoie was grouped with the T206 Wagner and Plank as the hobby's "big three." There's simply no comparison.

[/QUOTE]


What do you mean by no comparaison ??

[Matt]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

What do you mean by no comparaison ?? At one time the lajoie was considered at the second rank in the big 3

Speaking for Rob - I believe his point was that there are approximately 60 copies in existence of the T206s and perhaps 150-200 Lajoie's, so while at one point they were thought to be of relatively similar rarity, they are not.

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Matt

Speaking for Rob - I believe his point was that there are approximately 60 copies in existence of the T206s and perhaps 150-200 Lajoie's, so while at one point they were thought to be of relatively similar rarity, they are not.

Ok i understand. But for a guy who have money avalaible it is pretty easy to have a Plank or a Wagner too.... same thing than lajoie.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Ok i understand. But for a guy who have money avalaible it is pretty easy to have a Plank or a Wagner too.... same thing than lajoie.

You think that T206 Planks and Wagners are more available than Goudey Lajoies? KO.

[Rob D.]

Sorry, I meant "OK."

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

You think that T206 Planks and Wagners are more available than Goudey Lajoies? KO.

I don t said that sorry for my english.

i ll try to explain my idea :

if a guy have money avalaible for buy major big card, i agree with you with the fact it is easy to find a Lajoie goudey 33 card, but i also said if money isn t a factor, there are always Plank avalaible too for sale, when i had the money avalaible last month i had no trouble to find a plank, and i had the choice between 2 plank t206....

for the wagner it is more hard to find but if you have the money i don t think it is a problem to find one...

last month
3 wagner was for sale and 7 eddie plank....... i really love these card but when you have the pocket full of money, it is rellatively easy to find.

But i agree with the fact that plank and wagner are rarer than the lajoie . But not verry hard to find when you have money.

[Rob D.]

Just kidding with you.

Simply put, I think the scarcity of the Lajoie pales in comparison with the Wagner and Plank, which is worth mentioning only because for years those three cards were grouped together as sort of holy grails within the hobby.

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Just kidding with you.

Simply put, I think the scarcity of the Lajoie pales in comparison with the Wagner and Plank, which is worth mentioning only because for years those three cards were grouped together as sort of holy grails within the hobby.

I understand. At one time, the lajoie was considered in the second rank of this big 3 set :

in 1997 read the first couple sentence :

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...tid=244&type=1

[ullmandds]

is that uncut sheet too big to slab? if so...who wants it?!?!

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

last month
3 wagner was for sale and 7 eddie plank....... i really love these card but when you have the pocket full of money, it is rellatively easy to find.

But i agree with the fact that plank and wagner are rarer than the lajoie . But not verry hard to find when you have money.

Another thing to consider: We're in the middle of "auction season," during which many of the auction houses annually hold some of the major sales of the year. So to draw conclusions on the availability of Wagners and Planks based on what has been sold the past month isn't really accurate.

It's kind of like searching a few months for a specific T206 front-back combo, not finding one and making a declaration based on very limited data. It's done all the time, but it's a dangerous practice if you're concerned about accuracy.

[g_vezina_c55]

Ok, in the past years during the auction season like you said, the auction house had many Plank & wagner like this or this year it is special ?

i didn t follow the auction of all these auction house in the past.

[ullmandds]

i agree with Rob D...sales of vintage goes in cycles...one day there will be 20-30 T208 Firesides for sale...then you won't see any for a few years...same with many rare cards. Planks and Wagners typically come out for REA pretty regularly but I'd say the scenario lately is somewhat of an anomaly with all of the planks out there. With spikes in values...cards come out of the closet... There have been many wagners for sale lately...which is kind of unusual also!

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i agree with Rob D...sales of vintage goes in cycles...one day there will be 20-30 T208 Firesides for sale...then you won't see any for a few years...same with many rare cards. Planks and Wagners typically come out for REA pretty regularly but I'd say the scenario lately is somewhat of an anomaly with all of the planks out there. With spikes in values...cards come out of the closet... There have been many wagners for sale lately...which is kind of unusual also!

yep it is sure with the high sky value of these cards, many guy take decision to sell....