Indians Pennant?

[mschwade]

I've never seen one of these.. It's purple with gold trim. I'm guessing it's from the 1940's? I went on eBay and didn't see this exact one. Anybody seen this before and/or know it's worth?

Thanks,
Matt

[slidekellyslide]

Is it a baseball pennant? That's what I always wonder when I see something like this...there is a Tacoma Tiger pennant that I've seen sell for $1000+ and I always wonder if it even had anything to do with baseball since Tacoma had a zoo and a festival every year and they both had a Tiger mascot.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Is it a baseball pennant? That's what I always wonder when I see something like this...there is a Tacoma Tiger pennant that I've seen sell for $1000+ and I always wonder if it even had anything to do with baseball since Tacoma had a zoo and a festival every year and they both had a Tiger mascot.

If it wasn't a baseball pennant, it was mistakenly bought as one way back when.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Is it a baseball pennant? That's what I always wonder when I see something like this...there is a Tacoma Tiger pennant that I've seen sell for $1000+ and I always wonder if it even had anything to do with baseball since Tacoma had a zoo and a festival every year and they both had a Tiger mascot.

I found a similar pennant calling it circa 1930's/1940's Cleveland Indians pennant: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ians&offset=60

[slidekellyslide]

I'm just saying...I have no idea if it's baseball or isn't, but I see Indians on pennants from all over the United States.

To go back to the Tacoma pennant I was talking about here's a link to one that sold in Legendary.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...px?lotid=86052

How does anyone know that's a baseball pennant?

Tacoma has a festival every year called the Montamara festo which has a Tiger mascot...the city used a tiger as a mascot as well..and so did the high school.

[lefty147]

I do not think for a second that it has anything to do with the Indians. Just a common city souvenir one. I agree with Dan that the Indian Head logo was probably the most common logo used on all travel pennants at the time. Mike

[ksfarmboy]

Dan, I'm in agreement with you. There's an old thread where I brought up the very questions you did about the Tacoma pennant. Unless you show me a picture with that pennant at a game or in a players hands it's just another souvenir.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by ksfarmboy

Dan, I'm in agreement with you. There's an old thread where I brought up the very questions you did about the Tacoma pennant. Unless you show me a picture with that pennant at a game or in a players hands it's just another souvenir.

I dug up that old thread and apparently Dave Bushing, Dave Eskenazi and Max Weder believe it to be a baseball pennant. I don't know how or why they think that, but I still have my doubts just because the tiger is associated with so many things in Tacoma.

[ksfarmboy]

Yeah, those are 3 respected names but I'd just like to see some proof. I've seen too many things purported to be something and I'm just not comfortable with that being a baseball pennant. It may be a baseball pennant but until I see the proof I'm saying no.

[perezfan]

Regarding the Tacoma Tigers Pennant, I think that Dave and/or Max have some evidence or knowledge confirming the baseball relevance. I can't recall the specifics, but in conversing with them a few years back, there seemed little doubt that this particular pennant corresponded to baseball.

Below is another Pennant that fits the same category... In this case, indisputable evidence was found (tying it's roots to baseball). This gorgeous oversized Pennant is signed "T E Wanstall" and dated 1916. There are perhaps half a dozen known to exist. I always wondered about the alleged baseball tie-in, and believed it to be baseball due to the 9 Indian Heads pictured (perhaps representing 9 players on the field).

A kind ebayer recently sent me a copy of Ted Wanstall's obituary. It turns out that not only was he a 40+ year employee of the Ball Club... he was the Head of Concessions at old League Park! In this case, the provenance was about as valuable as the pennant itself...

[perezfan]

Just wanted to add that Rob D. might be able to provide some insight to the original post. Rob's not posting here as frequently these days, but could probably shed some light. I know he has just about every Indians Pennant known to mankind...

[baseball tourist]

For what it's worth-it reminds me of this similar Toronto pennant.

[oriolesbb6]

The Indian chief logo was super popular on a variety of souvenir pennants in the 30-40s. Just about every city in America used him. I would not assume this has anything to do with baseball.

[JLange]

...but I have no proof! At least not yet. But I have seen it several times before, and I really do think it is related to the team.

Now, I have some other Indians pennants that are less likely related to the team. What they all share in common is that they make it pretty clear they are souvenirs of Cleveland, OHIO...not saying that's the smoking gun ("OHIO") but I feel like these below are less defensible as related to the team. All the above notwithstanding, I have to say that if you came to Cleveland in the 1930s/40s/50s and bought a Cleveland Pennant with an indian chief on it, you would have to be living under a rock not to know that there is a team in town by the same name. I wonder if its possible that "Cleveland,OHIO" pennants were essentially unauthorized pennants that a souvenir vendor would be happy for you to mistake for being from the team, but were likely unaffiliated. I keep looking for vintage photos of a fan holding one of these or other similar pennants at a game to tie them closer to the tribe, but I have yet to see such evidence. Again, I think yours is the real deal, related to the team, but I have no good evidence (yet!)

[mschwade]

Thanks guys, it's been a fun thread to read. Love the clipping from the Fayton Daily News, the hometown paper that covers my Dayton Flyers!

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by JLange

...but I have no proof! At least not yet. But I have seen it several times before, and I really do think it is related to the team.

Now, I have some other Indians pennants that are less likely related to the team. What they all share in common is that they make it pretty clear they are souvenirs of Cleveland, OHIO...not saying that's the smoking gun ("OHIO") but I feel like these below are less defensible as related to the team. All the above notwithstanding, I have to say that if you came to Cleveland in the 1930s/40s/50s and bought a Cleveland Pennant with an indian chief on it, you would have to be living under a rock not to know that there is a team in town by the same name. I wonder if its possible that "Cleveland,OHIO" pennants were essentially unauthorized pennants that a souvenir vendor would be happy for you to mistake for being from the team, but were likely unaffiliated. I keep looking for vintage photos of a fan holding one of these or other similar pennants at a game to tie them closer to the tribe, but I have yet to see such evidence. Again, I think yours is the real deal, related to the team, but I have no good evidence (yet!)

Any idea on what this pennant might be worth JL?

Thanks!
Matt