I'm getting some extra rest for REA Saturday

[wondo]

How long does Rob's auction typically run?

[Jay Wolt]

Believe last years ended about 4ish

[bigtrain]

I also seem to remember it ended about 4:00AM EST

[wondo]

Wow - if I am in anything at midnight that will probably be it. I'll just go to sleep and dream of winning something.

I always seem to be an underbidder when I do that.

[oldjudge]

Get REAdy

[glchen]

They should probably do what Heritage does (I believe) and end individual lots if there has been no bidding on that lot for 30 minutes, rather than all lots are open if there is any bidding on any one lot.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by glchen

They should probably do what Heritage does (I believe) and end individual lots if there has been no bidding on that lot for 30 minutes, rather than all lots are open if there is any bidding on any one lot.

I like the current way, gotta work for it!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by glchen

They should probably do what Heritage does (I believe) and end individual lots if there has been no bidding on that lot for 30 minutes, rather than all lots are open if there is any bidding on any one lot.

While I can certainly see this point from a bidder's perspective, consignors would much rather have the money that doesn't win cards late in the night available for allocation to their auctions. At least if you didn't bid in the item before 4:00PM on Saturday, you are closed out of entering the bidding on a new item late.

[barrysloate]

It might be easier to go to sleep early and set your alarm for 2:00 AM.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It might be easier to go to sleep early and set your alarm for 2:00 AM.

Now there's a thinking man!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It might be easier to go to sleep early and set your alarm for 2:00 AM.

Barry, don't you old guys normally wake up around 2 am to pee? That's like a built-in REA alarm clock, no? (I'm actually laughing as I type this)

[perezfan]

That's actually a great tactic for people on the East Coast.... doesn't work as well for us left-coast people.

I kinda like it the way it is, so I can shift my bids around (once I am inevitably outbid on my #1, 2, and 3 choices )

[barrysloate]

Jeff- I wish it were only once a night.

[glchen]

The 30min rule / extended session is supposed to prevent the sniping you see on eBay and get the maximum bid for an item. However, I don't know if this necessarily gets the maximum money for consignors. I think it's more of an advantage (probably) for bidders on the West Coast who can stay up later (4am EST is *only* 1am PST). You have the max bid on your item, and there is no bidding on it for hours, and you go to bed thinking that you have won the auction. Then you wake up, and somebody puts in a bid at 3am EST because that bidder is aware of the typically end times for these auctions. I know that you are supposed to put in your max autobid, but I would think that pretty much everyone would re-think that max bid in extended session. This is just IMHO.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

While I can certainly see this point from a bidder's perspective, consignors would much rather have the money that doesn't win cards late in the night available for allocation to their auctions. At least if you didn't bid in the item before 4:00PM on Saturday, you are closed out of entering the bidding on a new item late.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It might be easier to go to sleep early and set your alarm for 2:00 AM.

that's cheating

[barrysloate]

We've had this discussion before, but there is a flaw in a system that has an extended bidding period that lasts nearly twelve hours. Almost all of the serious bidding is past midnight, making the 4:00 PM -12:00 AM period somewhat superfluous. There is nothing that compels people to bid during this eight hour period, and there is in fact great incentive for them to wait.

[calvindog]

Barry's right; I don't even look at the REA bidding until 1 am. That being said, Rob is just trying to wring every last nickel out of the bidders that he can and no one can blame him for that.

[Leon]

In this conversation it's worth repeating that the Auctioneers work for their consignors. However they can get the most money for the lots is what is best for them. If we miss sleep 1-2 nights a year (there are other auctions with this kind of closing too) then so be it. The main thing is everyone should have a chance to bid as much as they want to. The individual lots closing each or the whole auction closing late, both work.

Our last auction(s) have ended around 3am and I didn't hear anyone say they didn't have time to bid. That really is the goal. Just my opinion and others will differ. I am looking forward to a late night and also to using our Chat room function again. Last year we had about 27 people in there, very late, bemoaing and lamenting those very late bidders . It was a lot of fun. OH, btw, it's Kentucky Derby day on Saturday so my family, and another, will be going to the local Texas racetrack and partying during the day and watching the Derby (on big TV's) and the local races. It's going to be a fun Saturday. Good luck to all who go strong for what they "need".

[Bicem]

I don't think it's truly when zero bids are coming in, at some point Rob has to just say enough is enough and just end the thing. That's how it was last year, so also be careful about waiting too long.

[perezfan]

That's exactly right... there was still sporadic bidding taking place when he cut it off.

[wolterse]

Didn't Rob choose to end initial bidding earlier this year to avoid bidding going on until 4AM (like it did last year)?

If so, what time did the initial bidding end last year? Don't remember.

[oldjudge]

Eric--I'll bet the auction goes past 3:00 AM EDT. Anyone want the other side?

[Al C.risafulli]

For me, the REA auction is the highlight of the hobby year. I love staying up all night, chatting with other collectors, wrestling with myself over whether or not to put in more bids. The "most recent bids" feature he installed last year made it even more fun, as you could watch the bidding wars.

Unfortunately I participated in the Bike NY 5 Bike Tour last year, which was the Sunday morning the auction closed. As such, I went to bed at around 11. When I woke up before 4 to get ready for my trip to Staten Island, the auction was still humming along. I actually placed a bid before I left - and was outbid.

This year I'm doing the same thing, so I will miss the auction close once again.

So please, have some compassion and don't bid on the stuff I want.

Thanks in advance,

-Al

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

So please, have some compassion and don't bid on the stuff I want.

Thanks in advance,

-Al

Please provide a detailed list, including lot numbers and maximum bids, on anything you really want.

We'll do what we can.


Sincerely,

The Board

[wondo]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

The "most recent bids" feature he installed last year made it even more fun, as you could watch the bidding wars.

-Al

I just looked at that for the first time today - very cool!

I am amazed at the bidding frequency going on right now - several dozen each hour.

[barrysloate]

I didn't want to suggest that the auction should end early at the expense of bidders or consignors. My comment was directed towards all the dead time in the first eight hours of the bonus period. If something compelled bidders to start bidding earlier everyone could still get all their bids in.

I know there are insomniacs out there who look at staying up all night as an adventure, but I am sure that more than half the bidders don't find it to be much fun. And many are simply unable to do so. This has nothing to do with me, since I am not an aggressive bidder. I set my limits and almost never go past them. So I can place those bids anytime.

Maybe there could be an incentive to get people to start bidding before 1:00 AM. For example, anyone who gets all his bids in before 11:00 PM Eastern Time would get a $5 gift certificate to Taco Bell. Something as enticing as that would unquestionably get the auction to end at a reasonable hour.

[bcbgcbrcb]

This idea might be impossible to implement but how about a sliding buyer's premium scale where the juice percentage starts out lower and subsequently increases on those bids placed later (I remember seeing this concept used somewhere, maybe Fusco Auctions?)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

This idea might be impossible to implement but how about a sliding buyer's premium scale where the juice percentage starts out lower and subsequently increases on those bids placed later (I remember seeing this concept used somewhere, maybe Fusco Auctions?)

From what I can remember Steve Verkman had a small penalty for bidding late in his auctions, at least at one time. It was a bit more percentage or something along those lines. I don't know if he still has that. Huggins and Scott tried a sliding scale in their auctions, for a few auctions, and the more the hammer was, the less percentage BP was paid. They have since reverted back to a static BP rate. I don't remember any other new concepts except the one that Scott and I do in our auction, which is to allow bidding on any lot, at any time, even if you have not bid before the extended bidding. That strategy has worked well though it could be argued it is a disincentive to early bidders. We have had good success with it and will probably continue. Our auctions are smaller than some others and that might make a difference. regards

[barrysloate]

Phil- that would be extremely complicated and would cost the auction house too much money. What I implemented successfully was a descending clock. There was a 15 minute clock up to say 11:00 PM, then it became a 10 minute clock, and finally a 5 minute one. That lets bidders know they have to get their bids in.

[ethicsprof]

I will say it once again.
I do so every six months or so.
I sure miss Barry Sloate's auctions.

best,
barry

[M's_Fan]

From the REA rules:

4. The final day of bidding for all Lots is Saturday, May 1, 2010. Bids may be placed at any time prior to 4:00 PM EDT, May 1, 2010. The auction is scheduled to close at 4:00 PM EDT on May 1, 2010, HOWEVER, we will continue to accept bids after 4:00 PM EDT on all lots in the auction until approximately 15 minutes pass without either a phone or internet bid. IF YOU HAVE NOT BID ON AN ITEM BEFORE 4:00 PM, YOU CANNOT BID ON IT AFTER 4:00 PM. To ensure that everyone can get through to bid, we will remain open for bids until approximately fifteen minutes pass without a bid. If the line is busy, we are still accepting calls. This system is designed to reward bidders, not the person who can stay up the latest. If the auction continues to as late as 11 P.M. EDT on May 1, 2010, Robert Edward Auctions reserves the right to close the auction, at its sole discretion, at any time. We recommend bidders leave maximum left bids utilizing Robert Edward Auctions’ “Honest Auto-Bid” system to avoid disappointment. There will be no warning as to exactly when we will close the auction should bidding continue past 11:00 P.M. EDT. We do not anticipate the auction to remain open past 2:00 A.M. EDT (technically the morning of May 2, 2010). This closing system is designed to reward bidders, and eliminate all strategies which needlessly encourage the auction to remain open many hours into the following day, potentially giving an advantage to bidders who have the ability to stay up the latest. When the auction is over, callers will be greeted with a message informing them that the auction is over, and a message will also appear on our website stating that all bidding is closed. All lots remain open for bidding until the close of the entire auction. All lots are closed simultaneously.

In my opinion the flaw in this system is what it says in the last two sentences:

lots remain open for bidding until the close of the entire auction. All lots are closed simultaneously.

To avoid the all night bidding, all you would have to do is, after the close time of 4PM, close each individual lot after 15 minutes pass without bidding. Only the lots where active bidding was taking place would remain open.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by M's_Fan

To avoid the all night bidding, all you would have to do is, after the close time of 4PM, close each individual lot after 15 minutes pass without bidding. Only the lots where active bidding was taking place would remain open.

That would prevent bidders from changing strategies and shifting to a different item, if they are past their limit on another item.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

That would prevent bidders from changing strategies and shifting to a different item, if they are past their limit on another item.

Exactly right. To close each lot individually is only a benefit to certain bidders, but certainly not consignors. Let's say you have $10,000 to bid in the auction and you are going hard after a T206 Green Cobb which eclipses the $10,000 mark at 11:00 PM. Under an individually closed lot auction, that $10,000 might not get spent on another lot if it has already closed. But in REA, you can move that $10,000 to other auctions after 11:00 PM.

[Kawika]

Four a.m. EDT = Ten p.m. HST
'Nuf ced except I still gotta 544 (go shi shi) at two a.m.

[M's_Fan]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Exactly right. To close each lot individually is only a benefit to certain bidders, but certainly not consignors. Let's say you have $10,000 to bid in the auction and you are going hard after a T206 Green Cobb which eclipses the $10,000 mark at 11:00 PM. Under an individually closed lot auction, that $10,000 might not get spent on another lot if it has already closed. But in REA, you can move that $10,000 to other auctions after 11:00 PM.

That's a good point. But the system incentivizes bidders to bid low and early, then wait till after the Auction closing time to place their real bid. This result isn't really to the benefit of consignors either. I suppose the best way is to reduce the 15 minute rule to 10 minutes, or even 5 minutes. After a month to think about it what your max is on an item, you don't need that that much more time.

[barrysloate]

I could even make a case that keeping the auction going until 4:00 AM could hurt consignors. A bidder might place his bid early and be high until the wee hours of the morning. He finally decides he can't stay up any longer and goes to bed, only to discover in the morning he's been topped. He then complains that had he been awake, he would have gladly placed another bid. So in this example the lot went for less, not more.

And of course the ceiling bid is the antidote to this but many bidders refuse to place one.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I like that concept, Barry (the 15 - 10 - 5). Do you think it would help with a 1700+ lot auction like this? If so, I am all in favor of it.......

[Orioles1954]

I have honestly never heard one complaint from a consignor on our 30-minute per lot policy.

[barrysloate]

Phil- I think for a 1700 lot auction I might want to give thought to fine tuning it a little. Granted, the system could crash at the very end, and that would be a disaster. I still maintain the auction close as it stands is flawed and needs a little rethinking. But it's Rob's auction and it's his call, not mine.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by M's_Fan

After a month to think about it what your max is on an item, you don't need that that much more time.

No, but I still think that bidders need time to reallocate their funds when their max on an item is eclipsed late in the game.

[sox1903wschamp]

Operation "stay awake" has already gone into effect for me this Saturday night/Sunday morn. There is too much nice stuff for me to crash and then lose when I wake up. I know you can leave max bids but with the amount of lots I am interested in I treat this like draft day in the NFL and my card room is the war room for the weekend and my "board" is always changing based on the progress of the auction.

Lots of fun and as mentioned by Leon above, the chat room was fun last year and a riot at 3-4am on a Sunday when waiting for the auction to close and someone keeps bidding on 75 "mini's"!

[Leon]

If I were a consignor to REA this year I would be happy the way it closes.

Barry- I think you are probably in the minority about "sleep". For collecting addicts we can do without much of it for a day or two a year. If there was something I HAD to have I would be watching the finish of the auction.

Also, many s/w packages won't allow closing lots individually. I am not sure about REA's s/w, as to that aspect, at the moment.

[calvindog]

Do you guys realize that every year in the days prior to and during the wee hours of the end of REA's auction we provide Rob with a hundred different ideas for his auction? And every year they're the same!

[barrysloate]

Leon- I probably am in the minority but I am also not a collector. I just look for values so I know my limits long before the close.

But I still maintain that with a different system exactly the same number of bids could be placed, with no harm to the bidder or consignor, and the auction could close earlier. Maybe there are many collectors who are willing to stay up until 4:00 AM, but I doubt many of them would complain if the auction ended on its own at an earlier hour. If you had all your limit bids in by 1:00 AM and then the auction closed, and you got the lots you wanted, what's the downside?

[barrysloate]

I'm actually curious what people think about whether auctions close too late or not, and wanted to do a poll. Of course, I spent ten minutes clicking every link and could not figure out how to do it.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm actually curious what people think about whether auctions close too late or not, and wanted to do a poll. Of course, I spent ten minutes clicking every link and could not figure out how to do it.

Barry -

You have to start a new thread. Then select the "Post A Pole" option just above the "Submit" "Preview" buttons.

[barrysloate]

I tried Tim and still got flustered. Jim VB is going to set it up for me.

I think I just figured it out but I'll wait and see if Jim does it first.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Barry -

You have to start a new thread. Then select the "Post A Pole" option just above the "Submit" "Preview" buttons.

Tim,


LOL!

"Post a Pole"????



Wonka is holding for you, on line 2.



(Just came back from dinner and see that Barry has figured it out.)

[Kawika]

[barrysloate]

Did you know that the center for the Warsaw basketball team is a ten foot Pole?