Autographalert.com ????

tinkereversandme · #1 01-22-2010, 12:50 PM

I saw a link to this site on another thread. A lot of investigative reportin' (they sure hate JSA and PSA/DNA, and enjoy the stuff on Epperson), but there is a lot on there that is total bull. Who is behind this site? Anyone know?

Thanks,

Larry

henson1855 · #2 01-22-2010, 01:57 PM

I'm not sure about everything being total bull,I don't treat this site as gospel,but the facts are Jsa had made some terrible blunders,there is at least one lawsuit pending over the 30k Ed Delahanty letter that they authenticated,in which his name was misspelled 'Delehanty' http://autographalert.com/2006-7-12.html I know this to be true,the letter was pulled from a large auction house when the duped buyer went to resell it in 2009,I just find it hard to believe that people put so much stock in these authenticators,if I submitted a Keeler,Joss or even a D.T Young sig to be authenticated what do these people use as a reference?There just isnt enough reference material out there for some autographs. IMO there is a lot of room for error and when we are talking about thousands of dollars ,they can be costly errors.

metrotheme · #3 01-22-2010, 02:01 PM

It sounds like alot of the attack on there are personal, but they do point out a lot of fakes.

whitey19thcentury · #4 01-22-2010, 03:14 PM

I know a few people who have been frauded by 3rd party authenticators. Not naming any company's names, but this person went to the Masters 8 or 9 years ago and he and a friend managed to get 4 Tiger Woods autographs in-person. They sent them in to be authenticated. Three came back as real, the other not real.

Me being an autograph dealer online and "out in the real world," it amazes me how much stock buyers put into 3rd party authenticators like they are the end all be all.

I am careful what I buy and who I buy it from. I try to purchase large collections, especially vintage collections assembled in person.

I have been selling on eBay since February 1998. What turned into a way to make extra cash in college has turned into a really good secondary business.

I am proud to say that on my years of selling on eBay not one of the signed pieces I sold have come back as fake. In fact, only one of my auctions received an email from another dealer. I remember it well...it was a Don McMahon signed gumcard. Turns out his wife ghost signed a lot of items he got in the mail. Oh well.

About less than 5% of autographed items I sold was slabbed or had a sticker on it. However, I do state that I would refund the purchase and authentication cost if the item was deemed fake by an authentication service of the buyer's choice.

Like someone said earlier, when you see a really hard to find signature, what kind of reference do these companies have to compare the sigs with.

There have been a lot of problems with 3rd party authenticators, and not just in sports autographs.

There is a lot of info on the web, and not just personal attacks. Heck, there is video on the web of the Sal Bando fiasco at a local card show. It is really eye opening.

J.McMurry · #5 01-23-2010, 12:11 PM

This site has become very confusing as of late. I thought it was a "good guy" behind the site,but lately he/they have made some positive sounding references to Chris Morales

. sorry,but if you're standing up for Morales and slamming everybody else, you've lost all credibility in my eyes.

perezfan · #6 01-23-2010, 03:22 PM

I noticed the same exact thing (which was most disturbing), and agree completely with J. McMurry...

HOFAUTOS · #7 01-25-2010, 12:15 AM

Steve Koschal and Mike Frost.

tinkereversandme · #8 01-28-2010, 11:08 AM

You are correct J. McMurry.

Frost and Koshal. That's actually amusing to me because they always list themselves as experts when they need to prove a point for their argument.

They own an authenticating company themselves so they set up a blog to attack other authenticators? Has anyone ever seen anything authenticated by these two? I haven't.

The BS portion that I mentioned above is due to the fact that they have a strict agenda. They don't exist to better the hobby, but merely attack who they choose.

I see one piece on Morales, one on SCD and no mention of Coach's Corner or STAT because their focus appears to be on PSA/DNA, JSA and a new target in Autograph Collector's Editor, Steve Cyrkin.

It would have value in this hobby if it had focus, and wasn't so biased.

Thanks,
Larry

keithsky · #9 01-28-2010, 03:32 PM

I have contacted them before about why they don't jump all over Coach's Corner, Stat and Morales and told me (not quoting) something like it's not worth the time. But they do jump all over PSA and JSA for some reason. I agree with them on some of the stuff they find out about PSA and JSA but if your finding fault with those two you have to do all the third party authenticators and the problem auction houses. PSA and JSA aren't the only bad ones out there. The hobby needs to be cleaned up and it has to include all the bad guys.

J.McMurry · #10 01-28-2010, 04:40 PM

Isnt Koschal listed as one of the authenticators for Heritage Auctions?

I understand why they are piling on PSA and JSA,it's because they are the most popular,but if AA's "campaign to clean up the hobby" is just a marketing ploy to increase market share,then they are a waste of my time and belong in the gutter with the forgers they rant against.

pscolgrafs · #11 01-28-2010, 04:43 PM

I haven't been on in a while and this is an interesting topic. I too have e-mailed AA about the same thing and got the same response.

When this site first came to fruition, I was rather excited about yet another outlet that brings forth the serious issue of fraud that is destroying this business. It used to have a great deal of value, but now with the public one-0sided fighting with Cyrkin and Epperson, it has become nothing more than a crazed person/s screaming from a hill.

I don't hate Haiti, but why should I send you, Steve Koschal, money when I can go directly to one of many fine charities that are accepting them?

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading about the screw ups of the big boys as much as anyone because it shows that trusted authenticators make mistakes. The difference between a Coach's Corner Ed Delahanty and a JSA authenticated version is a $19,800 error (assuming that CCSA gets $200 for one of their Delahantys), but by not making aware of certain issues in the hobby (the sellers and authenticators who never get it right), it becomes what it is now, an agenda driven blog by a competitor, P.A.A.S.

Rich Klein · #12 01-31-2010, 07:25 PM

This is a site created to deal with the issues brought up by Koschal, Frost, et al

http://autographalerttruth.com/enter.html

Nothing like a nice fight; everyone should bring plenty of popcorn in reading these two sites

Regards
Rich

Jewish-collector · #13 01-31-2010, 08:55 PM

I agree with Rich. But, too much to read. Can someone give us the short version in 100 words or less.

timber63401 · #14 01-31-2010, 09:43 PM

Whats the deal with the Sal Bando story?

Steve D · #15 01-31-2010, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timber63401

Whats the deal with the Sal Bando story?

IIRC, a TV crew went to a show where Sal Bando was signing autographs, and JSA was authenticating autographs. Someone on the TV crew bought a Bando photo and forged an autograph on it. They then took it to JSA, who authenticated it on the spot.

The TV station the crew was from then aired the story.....

If I'm wrong in my remembering, someone please correct me

Steve

bluebirds · #16 02-01-2010, 12:35 AM

Koschal , Frost and this boards Sanctimonious Simon were together in an authenticatihg venture that was a big flop.

RichardSimon · #17 02-01-2010, 06:01 AM

That is true, and I quit after a brief time in the venture. I would hardly call it a flop though. The venture was an authentication company that is still in business, years after I quit.
--

tinkereversandme · #18 02-02-2010, 10:32 AM

Autographalerttruth.com is a nice compliment to Autograph Alert. And there is another site called www.autographdealernews.com that talks about Koschal as well.

My favorite was the Mastro deposition (November 2009 link) where Koschal is noted as not having steady income, hasn't been used as an authenticator for three years and is not qualified to render an opinion by the court of law. That's the short version. And Mike Frost got some Mante's authenticated by Frangipani.

So I guess what happens is that Koschal attacks you and you start a site attacking him. It's all kind of fun to read.

Cheers,

Larry

RichardSimon · #19 02-02-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkereversandme

Autographalerttruth.com is a nice compliment to Autograph Alert. And there is another site called www.autographdealernews.com that talks about Koschal as well.

My favorite was the Mastro deposition (November 2009 link) where Koschal is noted as not having steady income, hasn't been used as an authenticator for three years and is not qualified to render an opinion by the court of law. That's the short version. And Mike Frost got some Mante's authenticated by Frangipani.

So I guess what happens is that Koschal attacks you and you start a site attacking him. It's all kind of fun to read.

Cheers,

Larry

In the Mastro-Daniels case, referred to above as the Mastro deposition, basically the judge said that only scientifically trained individuals could render opinions in Indiana courts about authenticating autographs. According to his ruling PSA, JSA, Koschal, myself and others of similar training would not qualify to render opinions in courts in Indiana. This ruling applies to courts only located in Indiana.
I think the hobby holds a different view of the non-scientifically trained authenticators.
PSA's attorney did get the judge to dismiss Daniels' suit against them, but that had nothing to do with authentication.

drc · #20 02-02-2010, 11:13 AM

Often, a court simply won't accept as expert autograph witness a dealer. It's not a comment on the dealer's abilities, but the judge's rules for picking. Few judges are autograph experts themselves and have no idea which reseller is knowledgeable and which is not, so have to rely on strict formal guidelines. Some judges are suspect of the entire forensic handwriting area and won't accept anyone as an autograph expert. So a judge not picking someone as an expert sometimes is neither here nor there beyond the courtroom. If an Indianapolis Judge's rule is a toxicology expert witness has to be certified in Indiana, that doesn't mean toxocologists from Minnesota and Florida don't know what they are talking about, and the judge herself may say that's not what the rule implies.

RichardSimon · #21 02-02-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

Often, a court simply won't accept as expert autograph witness a dealer. It's not a comment on the dealer's abilities, but the judge's rules for picking. Few judges are autograph experts themselves and have no idea which reseller is knowledgeable and which is not, so have to rely on strict formal guidelines. Some judges are suspect of the entire forensic handwriting area and won't accept anyone as an autograph expert. So a judge not picking someone as an expert sometimes is neither here nor there beyond the courtroom. If an Indianapolis Judge's rule is a toxicology expert witness has to be certified in Indiana, that doesn't mean toxocologists from Minnesota and Florida don't know what they are talking about, and the judge herself may say that's not what the rule implies.

I testified for the prosecution in the case of the notorious Danny Dubcek.
The police, with me along with them on their raid, had a search warrant for his store in Nassau County, NY. I went through his entire store inventory and only saw one legitimately signed item in the entire store.
When I testified in court, the prosecutor asked me about my qualifications and experience. The judge then declared me an expert witness.
Maybe NY judges are wiser than those in Indiana.
Dubcek pled guilty and received a short jail sentence.

drc · #22 02-02-2010, 06:30 PM

double post

drc · #23 02-03-2010, 03:15 AM

If the prosecutor picked you and the judge okayed you, that says you were a court approved expert in New York.

Rich Klein · #24 02-05-2010, 08:41 PM

And he was blaming others for trying to stop his humanitarian efforts to help the victims of the Haiti earthquake. I read through his post for help and if I were going to help his "friends" I'd ask for THEIR direct email, address, etc.

If I send Koschal a payment; I can't write that off on my taxes. If I send to the legit group helping Haiti; then I can write that off on my taxes. So I agree with those who complained about SK's post; if you really want to help; find a group such as the Red Cross and donate directly to them.

Regards
Rich