Help with Identifying Ballpark in Matty Photo

[jacksons]

All -

A friend of mine (who happens to be a talented artist ) and I have been researching the potential location of the attached photographs of a young Mathewson.

Here's what we know:

1. The uniform dates this to the early 1900s - most closely to the 1901 NY Giants uniform
2. The scans of the backs of 2 of these images don't help - they were printed later.
3. The Polo Grounds did in fact have those white posts in the distant outfield used to tie horses, buggies.
4. According to Baseball Almanac, the NY Giants's Spring Training facility was in NY, NY from 1900-1901, before moving to Savannah in 1903

Anyone recognize the ballpark, or have more concrete knowledge of where the Giants trained in these early years?

[jacksons]

Sorry for wasting anybodys time with this.

It does appear to have been taken in the Polo Grounds.

[bmarlowe1]

It's not a waste of time. The white posts were definitely part of the Polo Grounds early 1900's outfield. But I would expect to see something of the elavated train structure in the background.

If you're sure it's the Polo Grounds - what is your reference?

Thanks,
mark

[jacksons]

Mark - good point on the the elevated train. I've been back and forth on this - Manhattan Field, "Brotherhood Park", etc. - still trying to figure it out.

Graig pointed out the scoreboard - unique in that it shows 8 rows - 4 sets of games, very clearly.

This same scoreboard as it appears in the first expanded Matty photo I've included here, is clearly visible in these two well known shots of the park from 1905, stroked in red.

Based on this alone, I'm guessing the photographs were taken in the ballpark, with the white posts and scoreboard as a backdrop. Maybe the flagpole and other surroundings were added/redesigned between 1900 and 1905? Maybe the scoreboard was first in an adjacent field/lot (where the Matty photo was taken, and possibly where the Giants had their "spring training", using the additional fields) and moved to the official park in 1905, tilted to the vantage of the bleachers?

But the elevated train is a great point, which still makes it a mystery (I think?)

[bmarlowe1]

Yeah - The scoreboard in the 1905 photo is very similar to the one behind Matty, though there is a lot less space between the ground and the bottom team's line score in the 1905 photo. Still it could be a modification of the same scoreboard, and it's reasonable that it could be moved around.

Adjacent lot outside the field seems like a good theory.

[william_9]

I'm no Polo Grounds expert by any means but it looks like it could be same place. The vantage point of the photographer is around waist height. The low perspective could be the reason you don't see the tracks over the fence. In the early Matty photos the buttressed wood fence behind the stables(?) looks to be natural wood. In the later shot, the fence is painted white and the stables are removed. It would not seem unreasonable to assume that if baseball was the primary use of the field at this time (I don't know) that those modifications would also accompany a new or modified scoreboard.

[bmarlowe1]

>>>The low perspective could be the reason you don't see the tracks over the fence.

No - you would easily see the structure - unless it did not yet exist. I think the train pre-dated Matty's arrival.

[bmarlowe1]

This photo shows Jimmy Sheckard in 1906 standing near the left field foul line at PG. Just above the high grandstands can be seen a familiar line of windows from the elevated train structure.

While this is not the same view as the Matty photo, the trains did run around the outside perimeter of the outfield, and it gives us an idea of the relative height compared to the playing surface.

[Lordstan]

OK. First off, I'm no photo expert, but...
What if Matty wasn't standing in the outfield?
Supposed he was standing in the clearing behind left centerfield to the left of the circled area in the other pictue? If you were looking from that area out toward the extreme right field corner, would you still see the train tracks?
In the picture of the field, could the wall behind Matty correspond to the side of the centerfield bleachers?

[bmarlowe1]

>>>Supposed he was standing in the clearing behind left centerfield to the left of the circled area in the other pictue?...If you were looking from that area out toward the extreme right field corner...In the picture of the field, could the wall behind Matty correspond to the side of the centerfield bleachers?

Where are the white posts? The panoramic stadium photo shows a circle of white posts around the outfield. It shows none in the area you describe, nor would there be any reason for them to be there.

[Lordstan]

Good point.
I didn't consider them. I was focused on the train tracks.