1919 Babe Ruth 4 in 1 Exhibit

[Batter67up]

Does anyone have any information on this exhibit card? This is dated Circa 1919. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Supposedly it was sent to SGC who verified it was authentic from that time frame (1919) but would not encapsulate it until they gathered more information.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Looks like Ruth, Walter Johnson, Stan Coveleski & ?

I don't think it is an exhibit card though, more like a strip card as all of the exhibits use actual player photos while this piece displays line drawings similar to many strip cards of the 1920's.

[smtjoy]

Not an exhibit for sure. Looks like a 4 card strip/panel from the Universal Toy & Novelty Co. There was a thread on the main page about them a week or so ago, looks a lot like those shown.

[paulcarek]

Sisler at bottom left?

[bcbgcbrcb]

If I had to guess, I would say Sisler too.

[bigfish]

I think that is Baker at the bottom

[Leon]

I moved this to the main forum but it does look like the answer is being made known, as to where they came from.....regards

[Hal Kaplan]

According to Christopher Benjamin's "Most Valuable Baseball Cards", this card features Ruth, Johnson, Coveleski, and Sisler, and I've heard that may be one of the Universal Toy & Novelty 4-in-1's, as mentioned above.

[Batter67up]

The players are definitely Ruth, Johnson, Sisler, and Covelski. Does anyone have any ideas of the actual age of the card. Could a printing or paper expert give us a good idea. SGC or PSA will only use exisitng information to determine this so I am looking for someone that can assist with their experience in printing or paper to help us determine a time range this card was made in. So far we have it from 1916-to 1923 but want to firm this up and make sure this card wasn't produced in the 30's, 40's or 50's showing all-time greats or something like that

[Batter67up]

Still not able to determine the age of this card. I have spent about 2 weeks researching it with minimal luck. It seems odd that there is very little information on this card. I was hoping to atleast confirm or deny the actual age of the card. Does anybody have any ideas on the age of the card or who I could show it to that may know?

[rhettyeakley]

I'm not sure what you are looking for in the way of a date, but as with many sets, the best we can do with this type of item is give you a range. As shown before, I have the following 4-0n-1 card also made by the Universal Toy & Novelty Co.


Seeing as these two items were found together (and sold by the same seller at the National) you can actually infer more from mine than yours. Speaker was first w/ Cleveland in 1916 and O'Neill was gone from Cleveland around 1923 so it is likely a 1916-23 or so card.

The other thread referencing these 4-on-1 cards still in the original Universal boxed set shows one w/ Cobb, Alexander, Johnson, and Bancroft on it. Unfortunately this doesn't help us much other than confirm it is 1915 or later (as Bancroft is on it). However, there was also a boxing 4-on-1 card that sheds a bit more light. Luis Firpo is apparently pictured there and while he was a famous boxer in South America, he really wasn't widely known in the US until 1920 or so & actually first fought in the US in 1922.

Also in the Universal boxed set that was found were some photos of an actress that looks like Bebe Daniels (very Betty Boop like in appearance). She was a very famous actress that began in pictures in 1919, but wasn't really a true star until 1920-21.

Given all the information that we have I would venture a guess that this issue of 4-on-1's were prduced by Universal Toy & Novelty between 1920-1923 or so (& most likely 1921-23). I have a really hard time thinking earlier than that, but it could be slightly after that, however, personally I don't think they were produced beyond 1925 or so.

So there you have my take on the cards. Likely 1920-23. Unfortunately, until more subjects come to light that range is the best we can do with the players pictured & the circumstantial evidence that we have.

-Rhett

[nolemmings]

the only problem I have with that analysis is that Babe Ruth was on his way to the Yankees January, 1920, in a rather heralded move. Unless the cards were already printed, it would seem that they would have to be 1919 or earlier. It is quite possible they were released in 1920, but I can't see how they go to distribution with Babe shown donning a Red Sox uniform after 1920.

[rhettyeakley]

Todd, they may have just used an old photo of the Babe.
-Rhett

[nolemmings]

that's possible, but how hard would it be to change the artwork to read New York? Also, if it was a Universal Toy product, I believe that company was out of New York--at least the '25 sets all featured just New York teams. I think it unlikely they would miss an opportunity to show off one of their local heroes and instead display him in the dreaded Red Sox garb.

[nolemmings]

it appears that Speaker is wearing a 1919 Indians uniform, which would make that the earliest year for the card (the team wore pinstripes on the road the preceding three seasons).

[Batter67up]

That information all makes sense my major concern was with such little information on these cards, I was trying to make sure they were not made in the 30's or 40's showing the stars of the past or something like that. I initially purchased the card because I saw my exact card in Christopher Benjamin's book entitled "Most Valuable Baseball Cards" that was published in 1990. The book states the card is Cir. 1919. After 19 years from the book publication, I was hoping there was more information on the cards. I do know of 1 other card similiar to mine but it has Grover Alexander and I think Rogers Hornsby replacing Walter Johnson and Stan Coveleski that are on my card. I did talk with Robert Lifson from REA and he said the card was original and he had one back in the 70's. I guess I just want to get more documention if it is out there somewhere. Below are the pages from the book I mentioned above.

[Batter67up]

The 1st Card is mine and the second card below is that of another collectors.

[Batter67up]

After providing SGC with information on the 4 in 1 Ruth card, I was finally able to get them to authenticate my card. I would like to thank the members at Net54 that provided pictures of their cards and the cover of the Surprise Box. This information assisted SGC to determine that this card was likely produced in 1920.

[nolemmings]

glad they slabbed it, but they got the date wrong--it's from 1919

[Batter67up]

Thats what the "Baseballs Most Valuable Cards" book states and they were aware of that but because of the minimal information on this card and the similiar pictures on cards from 1921. They were only comfortable with using C. 1920's on their slab. The more information I can provide them the better the chance of getting them to re-slab with a 1919 date

[dwinters]

Is there a printing proof alignment mark on the card to the right?

ps. Over-lapped the two cards on the common middle players for reference.

[Exhibitman]

SGC had no problem slabbing the boxing card from the issue.

[Batter67up]

Exhibitman,

How did they label your boxing card? They slabbed my Ruth/Johnson/Sisler/Coveleski as C. 1920's W-Unc. Authentic.

[Batter67up]

Dennis,

There is an alignment mark on the right side. Is there any importance if it is a printing proof mark?

[dwinters]

Batter67up Dennis,

There is an alignment mark on the right side. Is there any importance if it is a printing proof mark?

Honestly, I have no idea. I just thought it intresting that one of the few copies in existence would be a printers proof. Very interesting and unique card.

[Batter67up]

I had seen this card in the "Most Valuable Baseball Cards" book back in 1990 so when I saw it for sale for the 1st time in my 23 yrs of collecting, I had to buy it. The toughest part of getting this card encapsulated by SGC was the lack of information on it for them to certify its authenticity. I guess the good thing is that with so little information on it, it truly seems to be a scarce and unique card.