New Standard Catalog; Want Opinions

[Rich Klein]

I do realize what the *PRIMARY* focus of this board is; but I think we have enough varied collectors to ask this question.

I purchased the new Standard Catalog at Barnes and Noble this week and while I was perusing said volume noticed that there were precious few listings for cards 2000 to the present. And as one of maybe 5-10 people in the country who have actually edited "SC" type books, I do understand the tough decisions beipng made by F&W.

Laterl I noticed the back blurb of the tome and found out that just about all cards 2001-present were checklisted and priced on a CD.

And please think of this as a collector of more than just pre-war cards/

My query is:

1) Do you like that the way that is as user and think that 2000 is a good demcarcation point for going CD only.

2) Do you think that F&W should pony up to make sure that all sets vintage and present are available to a purchaser of the book in print format.

3) The HECK with it; make the whole darn data base available on-line and never do another print project. In other words; print is dead; move on to the 21st century!

4) Sort of related to option 2: Make the pre-1981 section a "specialized" catalog and 1981 to the present as another catalog. Give the customer two price points 1) A combined price for both volumes cheaper combined than either part 1 or part 2. A price point suggestion would be $49.95 for both volumes and $29.95 for each indvidual section.


Please post your responses to the board

Regards
Rich

[Tedw9]

I think they should just either offer the information online with a yearly subscription and/or a cd which you can purchase. I just purchased last years copy because it had everything on the cd.

I would miss the book as I have been using them for years. But I don't need a book that size anymore when I can have it all on one little cd.

[barrysloate]

Rich- Well here's the question I would ask: do cards from 2000 to the present actually have any real value? They may have a catalog value, but are they worth anything in the marketplace?

[HRBAKER]

Do cards from 2000 on even sell at a price that is close to the guide? I don't know or is it one of those things that you need to know what price you pay 10% of? As a user myself I see no problem with the cutoff. I would much rather have it all on line or in a "Vintage Only" print guide that is much lighter. I generally rip all the non-vintage section out anyway.

[Rich Klein]

To your question; while a great preponderance of the cards from 2000 to the present may have price guide value but not have real value (In actuality; this is probably true from 1981 to the present); the need for people who may have cards is to look up what set are they from; and what the price guide value is.

In 2004; we had approximately 90 different baseball products issued by the then four major manufacturers. And as such; being able to ID those cards is very important to anyone who may find them out of nowhere.

Rich

[barrysloate]

It's good to have a checklist of all modern sets, but the prices are very deceptive, and as such unnecessary. Many collectors who have modern cards are often shocked to find out how little they are worth. Thus, I think a price guide for these recent issues hurts more than it helps.

[Basilone]

Book values are still important but they are valuable for online trading on message boards, blogs, etc. In recent years, there have been a host of hobby message boards pop up (some with 25,000+ members) where trading is very popular. Yes....trading is back...thanks to message boards, blogs, etc. One website in particular http://www.thebenchtrading.com/ has over 7,800 members and focuses just on trading. Some message boards (like the Bench) have advanced "Trade Manager" features to help collectors track the status of trades, etc. That being said....on these message boards....Beckett pricing is the standard.

[JLange]

I would like to see two volumes (really I want to purchase a pre-1980 or 1981 volume). But I have another issue tied to this question. On the postwar card side, I collect a lot of regional issues of the Cleveland Indians, and The Big Book has eliminated many of these in recent years. I cite the annual Indians postcards and photocard sets of the 70s and 80s, and 1975 Jb Robinson Indians as some examples. I also fear that other team picture packs will be eliminated in future years. Again, I like the idea of two volumes, but I won't purchase future SC updates if the sets I collect can not be found inside. I also like the idea of an electronic version, but so far nothing compares to the real book. I took it today to the Philly Show. I left it in the car and referenced it before I made a purchase. I wish I had it in my pocket totake with me into the show, but so far it's still not that practical (and yes I have it as a PDF on my iPhone, but it's not that simple/quick to search in it's current form. All this to say two volumes are the way to go, but please make it comprehensive!

[buymycards]

I purchased mine from Amazon, and the CD didn't come with it. I need to contact Amazon to see what is going on.

I purchase this catalog every year so I can get comprehensive coverage of sets, including newer issues. It's bad enough that the catalog was always 2 years behind the times for the newer issues, but now they completely eliminated 2001 and newer cards. I don't want the CD, I want a complete catalog. I would rather pay more money for a complete catalog than a lower price for 1/2 of a catalog. I hope the CD isn't as crappy and difficult to use as the Krause/Tuff Stuff/SCD website.

Rick

[ChrisStufflestreet]

Personally, if the CD could contain all the info, I'd buy it separately. The space on my shelf could then accommodate something else.

As it is, since I only collect vintage, I can get several years' worth of use out of a Big Book. I had a 1991 edition I used for about 15 years, for instance.

[FrankWakefield]

Print is not dead. Not for everyone.

A few of us bibliophiles shall remain in your bleak future, Rich.

Remember that original Star Trek episode "Court Martial" where the lawyer, Samuel T. Cogley, attorney at law, has a preference for books over computers, and he explains that as he defends Captain Kirk? I still prefer books. I can read 'em if a storm knocks the power out... just need a flashlight, a kerosene lamp, or a candle. Gotta love books.

I like 1980 as a line... or 1973 would suit me. 2000 is ok.

Last year the first disk I got wouldn't work at all. The replacement that I was kindly sent worked the first time I tried it, then it too worked sporadically. I hope this year's disks work better.

FW

[ALR-bishop]

Option 4

[Steve D]

I think they should keep the paper version, but split it up into periods.

Krause Publications does this exact thing with their annual Standard Catalog of World Coins. One volume covers 2001 to the present, another covers 1901 - 2000, and yet another covers 1801 - 1900. If they do it for coins, then why can't they do it with baseball cards?

One book can cover 1886 - 1980, and another can cover 1981 to the present. I picked 1981 as the break since that's the year Topps' monopoly was ended, and Fleer and Donruss entered the fray.

Or, they could have three volumes...one for 1886 - 1947, one for 1948 to 1980 and the third for 1981 to the present.

For me anyway, something needs to be done. The Standard Catalog has become too big and cumbersome to handle easily. They should not however, short-change any collectors (re: customers), by eliminating sets from the book. All sets have a following, and to remove sets from the book only serves to alienate customers, and cause them to go somewhere else.

Edited to add:

Also, it seems to me that trying to include nearly everything in one book is just a case of hanging on to the old standard of people trying to collect everything.

These days, I would think that no one is trying to collect every card ever made; there's just too darn many of them out there! Nowadays, people are collecting favorite players, teams, hall of famers, cards from a favorite period, etc. The hobby has become irretrievably fragmented. Breaking the Standard Catalog into separate volumes covering specific periods, would better cater to today's collectors, who would then be able to have a book that lists the cards they're interested in, at a better price-point, and in an easier to handle format. Sure, there are collectors, such as hall of famer collectors, who would need every volume, but they would be the publisher's dream customer.

Simply stated, breaking the catalog up into separate volumes would serve more people, and probably bring more money to the publisher at the same time. Seems to me that this would make everyone happy.

Steve

[GrayGhost]

I saw it at Borders today, and the first 500+ pages are up to 1980 and are cool. I would like them to sell it separtely and cheaper, for those of us with little interest in anything newer.

[wolterse]

I like the idea of the SC splitting off the 2000 - Present on a CD. In reality, there were about as many sets and variations produced post-2000 then there were pre-2000 combined. It would nearly double the size of what is already a huge book.

Like some have said, modern cards fluctuate in value so much that pricing is negligible, but I do see value in checklists.

Ultimately, I think print is not dead, but dying. Note that the #1 selling book in America, Dan Brown's Lost Symbol was actually outsold by its downloaded version on the Amazon Kindle. That's the future.

I think the SC will eventually end up online. It's the only way they'll be able to sustain their business.

[toppcat]

I would love a pre-81 book with expanded listings and descriptions and if you put the post 80 stuff in digital format (whatever that may be). However, why can't you just pick and choose what you would get and pay accordingly. Surely it is possible to print custom versions of the book at this point, at least within reason.

[ethicsprof]

I'd be happy to see the vintage area updated more thoroughly with respect to descriptions particularly.
Oftentimes I feel like i'm reading what i've read year after year.
The return of key scholars this year should help methinks.
With respect to the modern, i'm a year older than barry sloate.

best,
barry

[jcmtiger]

2 price guides would be fine.

1950 and newer, and everything else prior.

[barrysloate]

A year older, and many years wiser.

[insidethewrapper]

I thought when I bought the 2010 Catalog it would also include the CD for all cards, not just 2001 +. It looks like I bought the book and then the CD will be available later ( double whammy). I don't think there has been many changes since last year.

I like the CD to include all years 19th, 20th and 21st Century cards.

Priceguide should list NRMT (7), EX ( 5) , VG (3) pre 1981. This would be a better read for all collectors ( old and new). After 1980 ( one column NM-MT ( 8).

[ethicsprof]

Barry S.,
many thanks ole friend but you are the board's Paramahansa Yogananda
and i am, at best, your unworthy servant.

best,
barry a.

[barrysloate]

Barry- I can't even pronounce it, but thanks for the honorific.

[teetwoohsix]

My 2 cents-I like option # 4 the best....

[HRBAKER]

Now that #4 was added seems to make the most sense.

[Bob Lemke]

Given that the book's publisher is now owned by a private equity company, rather than an old-school hobby firm, it is a safe assumption that any potential changes to format or coverage that cannot be slam-dunk proven to maintain or improve the bottom line from Day 1 are off the table.

It is rock-and-hard place. Ink-on-paper hobby reference catalogs/price guides are circling the drain and no one has yet to come up with a viable model for selling this information on-line.

A good guess is that in the coming years (if there ARE coming years for this title) we will see fewer pages and more content shifted to the accompanying DVD. Resulting reductions in print costs and shipping MAY allow for a more attractive price point.

[Rich Klein]

Trust me; what is happening with the SC is very similar to many other forms of MSM. For example; look at daily newspapers; as little as 20 years ago; the Dallas Morning News had 7-8 sections a day; now they have 4. The whole issue is that the need for the information is the same but to deliver the information in a profitable manner is very difficult indeed. Radio is in much the same bind with people needing local information and having so many stations owned by consolidators; the need for live and local is superceded by those folks voice-tracking to save money.

That's why I posted four options for the people here to comment on -- because whilst many people here would just say we only need the pre-1981 part; your average reader wants all the checklists in one place. Thanks to the glut of products in the middle part of this decade doing that in one work is now probably impossible.

Thus; which option do you take and why? Believe me; this is no slam at anyone at F&W who works on the hobby side; rather it *IS* an issue which does affect the hobby as a whole. For, without strong print publications; there is really no way to properly archive hobby history, etc.

Regards
Rich