NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-19-2024, 10:48 AM
Brian Van Horn Brian Van Horn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,156
Default In the news.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...outlook-2024-1
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-19-2024, 11:04 AM
jingram058's Avatar
jingram058 jingram058 is offline
J@mes In.gram
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: In the past
Posts: 2,172
Default

Well, things like NFTs and Pokemon cards are a fad, bound to crash. The economy is actually doing quite well. While that trinket stuff tanks, I don't see Ruth, Cobb, Foxx and Gehrig going anywhere except maybe further up.
__________________
James Ingram

Successful net54 purchases from/trades with:
Tere1071 (twice), Bocabirdman (5 times), 8thEastVB, GoldenAge50s, IronHorse2130, Kris19 (twice), G1911, dacubfan, sflayank, Smanzari, bocca001, eliminator, ejstel, lampertb, rjackson44, Jason19th, Cmvorce, CobbSpikedMe, Harliduck, donmuth, HercDriver, Huck, theshleps

Completed 1953 Bowman color & b/w
Completed 1962 Topps
*** Raw cards only, daddyo! ***
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-19-2024, 11:05 AM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,070
Default

Thanks...this article has made me change my mind about converting my vintage baseball card assets into whiskey.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-19-2024, 11:39 AM
BobbyStrawberry's Avatar
BobbyStrawberry BobbyStrawberry is offline
mŞttHǝɯ h0uℊℌ
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,480
Default

Interesting that most of the cards in the CL50 that are tanking are not baseball.
__________________
_
Successful transactions with: Natswin2019, ParachromBleu, Cmount76, theuclakid, tiger8mush, shammus, jcmtiger, oldjudge, coolshemp, joejo20, Blunder19, ibechillin33, t206kid, helfrich91, Dashcol, philliesfan, alaskapaul3, Natedog, Kris19, frankbmd, tonyo, Baseball Rarities, Thromdog, T2069bk, t206fix, jakebeckleyoldeagleeye, Casey2296, rdeversole, brianp-beme, seablaster, twalk, qed2190, Gorditadogg, LuckyLarry, tlhss, Cory
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-19-2024, 11:53 AM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,063
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingram058 View Post
Well, things like NFTs and Pokemon cards are a fad, bound to crash. The economy is actually doing quite well. While that trinket stuff tanks, I don't see Ruth, Cobb, Foxx and Gehrig going anywhere except maybe further up.
I am going to play devil's advocate about Pokemon (which I don't collect). I don't think Pokemon is a fad, like Beanie Babies was a fad. The subsection of card collectors that focus more on artistic mediums like Magic, Pokemon, comics, anime are just as likely to buy them due to nostalgia. In the 2020 runup, nostalgia drove the vintage card years 1980 - 2004. Jeter, Griffey, Chipper Jones, and other 90s HOF'ers were purchased by millenials who now had cash to buy cards they couldn't afford as kids. It has been, and will continue to be, the same with collectors of Pokemon and Magic. As millenials age and become more secure financially, I would predict that not only will late 1990s sports cards continue to rise in value (long term), but so will Pokemon and Magic. Millenials will drive the 1990s collectibles market just like Boomers drove the 1950s market.
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo

Last edited by todeen; 01-19-2024 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-19-2024, 12:44 PM
jingram058's Avatar
jingram058 jingram058 is offline
J@mes In.gram
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: In the past
Posts: 2,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
I am going to play devil's advocate about Pokemon (which I don't collect). I don't think Pokemon is a fad, like Beanie Babies was a fad. The subsection of card collectors that focus more on artistic mediums like Magic, Pokemon, comics, anime are just as likely to buy them due to nostalgia. In the 2020 runup, nostalgia drove the vintage card years 1980 - 2004. Jeter, Griffey, Chipper Jones, and other 90s HOF'ers were purchased by millenials who now had cash to buy cards they couldn't afford as kids. It has been, and will continue to be, the same with collectors of Pokemon and Magic. As millenials age and become more secure financially, I would predict that not only will late 1990s sports cards continue to rise in value (long term), but so will Pokemon and Magic. Millenials will drive the 1990s collectibles market just like Boomers drove the 1950s market.
I see where you're going with that, sir, I just think the big difference between vintage and some of these new cards is the sheer numbers of these new cards produced, even ones that might be desirable. There will always be that one card, like Michael Jordan for example.
__________________
James Ingram

Successful net54 purchases from/trades with:
Tere1071 (twice), Bocabirdman (5 times), 8thEastVB, GoldenAge50s, IronHorse2130, Kris19 (twice), G1911, dacubfan, sflayank, Smanzari, bocca001, eliminator, ejstel, lampertb, rjackson44, Jason19th, Cmvorce, CobbSpikedMe, Harliduck, donmuth, HercDriver, Huck, theshleps

Completed 1953 Bowman color & b/w
Completed 1962 Topps
*** Raw cards only, daddyo! ***
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-19-2024, 01:47 PM
Lobo Aullando's Avatar
Lobo Aullando Lobo Aullando is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Emerald, Evergreen
Posts: 278
Default

So things more than quadrupled then went down a bit more than a third.

Glad I mostly do this for fun, I suppose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn View Post
__________________
"Don't mistake activity for achievement." – John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-19-2024, 01:57 PM
vintagerookies51's Avatar
vintagerookies51 vintagerookies51 is offline
C0le Hibb@rd
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 523
Default

Interesting considering that the stuff I like to collect seems be absurdly expensive compared to 2021 even. Maybe names like Ruth/Cobb/Mantle/Jackie will just always go up
__________________
Collecting nice-looking but poorly graded cards of legendary HOFers
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-19-2024, 02:55 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry View Post
Interesting that most of the cards in the CL50 that are tanking are not baseball.
Sorry, gotta be "that guy" that asks the stupid question: What's the CL50?
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-19-2024, 03:13 PM
JustinD's Avatar
JustinD JustinD is offline
Ju$tin D@v3n.por+
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, Mi
Posts: 2,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
I am going to play devil's advocate about Pokemon (which I don't collect). I don't think Pokemon is a fad, like Beanie Babies was a fad. The subsection of card collectors that focus more on artistic mediums like Magic, Pokemon, comics, anime are just as likely to buy them due to nostalgia. In the 2020 runup, nostalgia drove the vintage card years 1980 - 2004. Jeter, Griffey, Chipper Jones, and other 90s HOF'ers were purchased by millenials who now had cash to buy cards they couldn't afford as kids. It has been, and will continue to be, the same with collectors of Pokemon and Magic. As millenials age and become more secure financially, I would predict that not only will late 1990s sports cards continue to rise in value (long term), but so will Pokemon and Magic. Millenials will drive the 1990s collectibles market just like Boomers drove the 1950s market.
I agree on Pokémon and I don’t collect it. My son did and I just see that excitement move through the last couple generations. Pokémon first edition was 1996, it has been consistently popular for 27 years…that is far past any comparison to beanie babies. They are here to stay and as those kids get older they are going to circle back just like we did.

We might think it silly, but I can’t imagine visiting a card show from now until my death that doesn’t include a Pokémon table, whether I like it or not.
__________________
- Justin D.


Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander.

Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-19-2024, 03:48 PM
BobbyStrawberry's Avatar
BobbyStrawberry BobbyStrawberry is offline
mŞttHǝɯ h0uℊℌ
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Sorry, gotta be "that guy" that asks the stupid question: What's the CL50?
According to the article Brian posted, it's an index of 50 different cards:

https://www.cardladder.com/indexes/cl50index


I hadn't heard of it either
__________________
_
Successful transactions with: Natswin2019, ParachromBleu, Cmount76, theuclakid, tiger8mush, shammus, jcmtiger, oldjudge, coolshemp, joejo20, Blunder19, ibechillin33, t206kid, helfrich91, Dashcol, philliesfan, alaskapaul3, Natedog, Kris19, frankbmd, tonyo, Baseball Rarities, Thromdog, T2069bk, t206fix, jakebeckleyoldeagleeye, Casey2296, rdeversole, brianp-beme, seablaster, twalk, qed2190, Gorditadogg, LuckyLarry, tlhss, Cory
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-19-2024, 06:22 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry View Post
According to the article Brian posted, it's an index of 50 different cards:

https://www.cardladder.com/indexes/cl50index


I hadn't heard of it either
Thank you?

I was beginning to feel a bit nauseous after seeing a card index trying to mimic a stock market index. Card Ladder 50.

Pretty soon some knuckle head will try to sell shares of the CL50 like an ETF and pretty soon, some knucklehead will buy it. Holy crap, could you imagine the manipulation that could take place if someone tried to ETF the CL50?

This is a system that could be easily gamed. Just for poops and giggles, I wanted to see what the 1 year graph for the CL50 looked like and the link took me to a subscription page. All I could do was shake my head and laugh.

I guess my problem is that I look at this stuff like it's cardboard when I should be actually be judging it by the label in the plastic casing.

By the way, if someone sold shares of this index, do they also sell shares for shorting the index?
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-19-2024, 09:35 PM
joshuanip's Avatar
joshuanip joshuanip is offline
Joshua
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 540
Default

Article and its author carries no weight.

He “flashes” the reader by dangling a pre-rookie of Ruth at the top of the article, then backs up his thesis that trading cards have crashed with Pokémon cards and nft’s. Really nft’s! Not remotely in the same asset class.

And an index does not portray the entire market. We hear about new highs due to the (overpriced) mag seven in the nasdaq 100 carrying that index. Doesn’t mean the whole market is doing well. The Russell 2000 index is the best broad measure of the market which has rebounded as breadth strengthened but it is still 17% below its highs from a couple years ago. My point is the Pokémon card negative skew to the trading card index is the inverse of the magnificent 7 + skew to the nasdaq100, but doesn’t depict what’s really happening to the broader markets as depicted by the Russell 2000.

I thought his story was weak so I decided to look him up in LinkedIn. His pedigree is weaker. The kid is 6 years removed from grammar school and has 3 years of journalism under his belt. Hardly a business expert for business was insider let alone him penning an article outside his lane regarding collectibles.

But wait his profile summary says the Wharton school. So that provides some cred… until you read further that he added that to his cv for attending a seminar at Wharton, and not a degree from there. Overinflated cv is another red flag for someone trying to pretend to be above their weight class.

So don’t give the article much credence.

Last edited by joshuanip; 01-19-2024 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-19-2024, 09:38 PM
joshuanip's Avatar
joshuanip joshuanip is offline
Joshua
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 540
Default

He is right about brown liquors though. There has been a trend towards clear alcohol to the detriment of scotch whiskeys. But that’s not a bubble pop, that’s simply a change in consumer preference.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-20-2024, 08:06 AM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
Al Stein
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,008
Default

The Russell 2000 is an index of small public companies. While following the health of smaller companies can be helpful, they are a small part of our overall economy. The total market cap of those 2000 companies together is about the same as Apple's.

I think it makes some sense that there has been a pullback in collectibles because of high interest rates. I know I've been buying bonds, not cards, lately.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Last edited by Gorditadogg; 01-20-2024 at 08:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-20-2024, 11:03 AM
joshuanip's Avatar
joshuanip joshuanip is offline
Joshua
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
The Russell 2000 is an index of small public companies. While following the health of smaller companies can be helpful, they are a small part of our overall economy. The total market cap of those 2000 companies together is about the same as Apple's.

I think it makes some sense that there has been a pullback in collectibles because of high interest rates. I know I've been buying bonds, not cards, lately.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
I think you missed my point about skew. Apple is 10% of the nasdaq100. Mag7 is 40% of ndx market cap. So the performance of those stocks drive the index and perception of the health of the market far more than what is really happening underneath in the overall market. So the next time you hear bear market, it’s more likely just mean reversion to the mag7. Russell 2000 is small cap but is more indicative of all sectors, not just tech.

But back to cards as I don’t know anything about the stock market... The site below is interesting.

https://www.cardladder.com/indexes

I haven’t looked into the constituents nor its performance calculations deeply. But while all have been soft, sports cards, particularly vintage cards, have held up fairly well. Yet pokemon shows down 40%. Truth be told, that number looks suspects if you look at the 3 month graph, but still shows Pokémon is an outlier and negative attribution to the collectible trading card market.

So to use Pokémon and nft’s as an indication of a crash in trading cards is not a fair.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-26-2024, 11:55 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 35,034
Default

I don't think Pokemon has the strong staying power of baseball. Collect what you enjoy and, if it goes down in value, you can still enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanip View Post
I think you missed my point about skew. Apple is 10% of the nasdaq100. Mag7 is 40% of ndx market cap. So the performance of those stocks drive the index and perception of the health of the market far more than what is really happening underneath in the overall market. So the next time you hear bear market, it’s more likely just mean reversion to the mag7. Russell 2000 is small cap but is more indicative of all sectors, not just tech.

But back to cards as I don’t know anything about the stock market... The site below is interesting.

https://www.cardladder.com/indexes

I haven’t looked into the constituents nor its performance calculations deeply. But while all have been soft, sports cards, particularly vintage cards, have held up fairly well. Yet pokemon shows down 40%. Truth be told, that number looks suspects if you look at the 3 month graph, but still shows Pokémon is an outlier and negative attribution to the collectible trading card market.

So to use Pokémon and nft’s as an indication of a crash in trading cards is not a fair.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-26-2024, 02:06 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I don't think Pokemon has the strong staying power of baseball. Collect what you enjoy and, if it goes down in value, you can still enjoy it.
Well, maybe...

I'm not worried about what I collect, it's not for investment. However, if I spent 10s of thousands on Pokemon and it dropped by a factor of 10x, I might have to take some medication to prevent me from vomiting before opening my box of Pokemon cards.


Edited to add - I don't own any Pokemon cards - not that there's anything wrong with that...
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.

Last edited by Fred; 01-26-2024 at 02:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-27-2024, 02:37 AM
Snowman's Avatar
Snowman Snowman is offline
Travis
Tra,vis Tr,ail
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 2,235
Default

I think Pokemon is much closer to comic books than Beanie Babies with respect to future collectibility.
__________________
If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-27-2024, 11:05 AM
Snapolit1's Avatar
Snapolit1 Snapolit1 is online now
Ste.ve Na.polit.ano
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 6,067
Default

At the White Plains show a few weekends ago, a dealer was commiserating about how so much of his regular shows now are Pokémon tables and how it’s growing.

There are people turning 30 who collected these cards as a kid. And they are collected around the world.

P.S. The definition of the word “fad” is not “stuff that I personally don’t collect And have no interest in ”.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good news.......bad news BabyRuth Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 02-16-2021 02:03 PM
Some Cool News - Mick Chosen For Topps Museum Exhibit - PICS & TV NEWS LINK ADDED! MattyC Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 57 11-25-2015 07:40 PM
An interesting article about autographs NY Daily News-and it is not a bad news story RichardSimon Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 13 07-10-2012 12:57 PM
Help with good news/bad news value Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 24 05-26-2005 02:02 PM
the good news and the bad news Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 12-10-2001 10:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 PM.


ebay GSB