phony PRO cards

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Posted By: macboube

First off, I have had this posted in the Postwar Football section almost 24 hrs prior and have one response. I am seeking prudent advice on this and am asking for assistance. Thanks.

Has anybody noticed, or does anyone have info. re. some of the highly graded PRO cards that have been auctioned on ebay? I have specific info, on two of them, both 1955 Topps All Americans. The first one was Jim Thorpe "PRISTINE" Grade 10. It actually sold for several hundred dollars a couple of months ago. If it were a legitiamte PSA 10, it's worth would be $30,000 easy. I first contacted PRO to see if the cert. no. was legit, and of course it wasn't. I was told that particular cert. no. was stolen, along with others. I then contacted the seller who ignored me and left his phony "10" up. I then contacted ebay (three times) and they did nothing. After the auction, I contacted the buyer and informed him of my findings. He then tried to research this on his own and found nothing but dead ends. No assistance from ebay, the seller, or PRO. As a matter of fact, he could not reach PRO, as he said he every telephone number they had was no longer working. (Did they go out of business?)

Even more peculiar was the Four Horseman Card that was put up for auction just a couple of weeks ago on ebay. This one had a GEM MINT 9.5 grade from PRO. The seller, (I will not yet mention his name)is actually a well known "playa" regarding the 1955 Topps All American cards. He sells many, many PSA AA's on ebay, mostly in grades of 5, 6, 7. I have never seen him offer even an 8 let alone a 9. Even more remarkable, the seller has one of the TOP '55 AA Sets in PSA's Set Registry. Surely he knows this card is illegitimate. Fortunately, he had a starting price of $499.00 and the card went unsold. He has not re-listed it. I contacted him and asked him if he knew this card was phony. He only got very defensive, stating that PSA was not the only company out there, and wondered why I was inquiring and assuming he was dealing a phony card. He told me he was 60+ years old (what does that have to do with it?) and if people like me were more concerned about stating things that were positve and complementing others, the world would be a better place, and he signed his correspondence "God Bless" with his name.

I can hardly believe this. A guy who deals cards, knows the AA Set inside out, and has his name attached to a top PSA Set Registry lot, tries to pull this crap?

What can be done at this point? Should I expose him by name here?

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Posted By: dennis

pro is known for putting high grades on trimmed cards,this is no secret.

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Posted By: Jeff

Overwhelmingly unreliable in its grading, and grades obviously altered/trimmed/recolored cards. Two words: AVOID AT ALL COSTS (ok, 4 words).

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Posted By: Steve

Yes, expose this guy so we all will be warned.


Steve

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Posted By: Frank L.

Most of my experience is in the medical world. I would expose someone there if someone's life were at stake, if I knew with pretty good certainty.

I dont think I would expose someone in this case, if I was not 100% sure. I believe that most that knowingly do wrong, are eventually exposed via their own hand.

Frank L.

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Posted By: leon

First of all thanks for trying it on the Football side first. As this Forum wasn't really started as anything except a pre-war baseball card forum it doesn't surprise me that there isn't a lot of activity on that board. It doesn't eat much and a few folks appreciate it, so we leave it. That being said I am not sure this is really the right place to continually post post-war football card questions especially since it doesn't really seem like you collect what the main focus is...OR, I don't remember you posting much about pre-war baseball cards? The rules do say that off topics are permitted ONLY for every day regular posters to the main board. It's that way for a reason and is mostly tried and true. I, and the other moderators, will make an exception or two on the rules, as we don't want to be too stringent, but the Off topics really need to be kept to a minimum on this page by any particular member. Again, if you read the Forum Rules you will see some verbiage about it. I wrote it and it's not very well written but does get the point across. I/we do appreciate your participation otherwise, and this isn't meant to be a personal attack at all....take care and happy collecting!!

edited to add....I am fine with this particular thread continuing but please don't do anymore football, for a while, on the front page...AND if you want to expose something you will need to put your full name out here....unless you only need to point to an auction or have infallable evidence...then I guess you could stay anonymous...(but not sure)

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Posted By: davidcyclebeck

It's not stepping out onto a limb or offering shocking revelation to say many PRO high grade cards have been trimmed or otherwise altered. This is common sentiment in the hobby, and the values of PRO vis-a-vis PSA and SGC reflect this. Why is a card holdered PRO 10 when the card in a PSA 10 holder would receive a multiple higher sell price? It doesn't take Kurt Godel figure out the answer.

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Posted By: Andy

I would avoid PRO cards at all costs. I learned of this the hardway. I purchased a raw T206 on ebay from someone who often posts on this bored. After I paid, I asked a question about what would be the return policy if I got the card back from PSA and it was trimmed. Amazingly the card never arrived...got lost in the mail.....BS! The seller would not refund my money b/c there was no insurance on the shipping. He said he would make it up to me by giving me a great deal on A T206 PRO 8 card. I was new to the hobby so took his offer...turns out the guy got me twice.

He kept saying he would make things right, but never did. He took advantage of somebody new to the hobby for about $150 bucks. This is detrimental to the hobby b/c it turns people off to collecting. I'm on the fence about posting his name here. His first name starts with a "D".

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Posted By: Bob

Has anyone ever bought a card on eBay where the seller said "God Bless" on his web page that was either not trimmed, altered or a downright fake? Just curious. Most of the "God Blessers" I've seen have been scammers.

Saying PRO grades trimmed and altered cards is no shock and everyone knows (or should know) it. They given incredibly high grades (one might say bizarre) to lower ended cards. They are pretty good about making sure the cards are authentic, though.

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Bob, I have noticed the same thing. "God Bless" in an ebay auction usually means "hold on to your wallet".

Was PRO grading the same company that did the grading for the crap that sold on the Home Shopping Network? I can't beleive that they are still in business.

Rick

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Posted By: Anonymous

So now that I followed your previous instruction of waiting a day or two to see if there are any responses to my post in the Dead Postwar sector (one whole response in almost 24 hrs.) you are telling me to cease already? Boy that sure did not take long. Sorry for all the trouble.

macboube

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Posted By: leon

Please try to understand this simple point. This is not a football forum. thanks much

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Posted By: Steve

Hey I gave it a shot.


Steve