OT Anyone else embarassed or disappointed with WS umpiring??

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Seems to me that the umpiring has been a bit weak for this 2008 World Series.

The missed tag at third was a bit troubling. The strike zone hasn't been consistent. There have been some other calls and non-calls. That 2nd Rays run was a godsend for MLB, who realistically should have called the game sooner and had a rainout.

The non-call that I understand least was the lack of the infield fly rule being called with runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and a fly ball to the second baseman in the infield dirt. I understand that the umpire is to call "infield fly, batter out" if, in the umpire's judgement, the ball is catchable with ordinary effort... I know it was windy, rainy, and a bit muddy; but that looked like an "ordinary effort" fly ball for a major league infielder. Golly, if wind, rain and mud were the reasons the umpire didn't call infield fly, then they should have stopped play for that.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

No embarrassed at all.  A missed call is a missed call, especially a bang bang call.  I think the Jimmy Rollins misplayed fly ball had something to do with the UMPs 'infield fly rule' no call. The strike zone has been a bit inconsistant which is disappointing but nothing unusual.

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Posted By: howard

I don't think the umping was all that terrible but Frank makes an excellent point that I had not thought of. If the umps are making certain calls (or not making them) because of weather/field conditions then then play should probably be stopped.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Frank,
Im with you ! I have been very disappointed with the umpiring. They touched upon it last night that umpires cannot do back to back world series. I guess that is in thier contract. Thus no one from last years crew was able to do this years game. A subject that I believe they should re visit in the off season.

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Posted By: Steve

I agree, the calls are sloppy ...but I just had to anyway;

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Posted By: Richard Cline - RC

I agree that overall there has been inconsistency in the calls, I guess that is the human aspect that is often referred to. I wasn't able to tune in last night until the 4th inning or so and couldn't believe they were playing in those conditions. It is very fortunate for baseball that the Rays tied the game or else they would have either played the game to it's conclusion in terrible conditions or called the game and Phillies win with considerable outroar from fans considering the circumstances.

It just seems that baseball continues to dig itself into a hole. How many future fans stay up to watch these games to their conclusion? I guess that is a completely new topic so I'll stop my rant and jsut remember the days I would sneak a radio into school and listen to the Series before racing home to see it on TV.

RC

Edit: Steve, nice comic, very appropriate for anyone who has ever officiated a sport or coached with fans who want to be helpful!

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Posted By: scott fandango

i think it may be past their bedtimes.....

they should play some day games, or at leat start them at 7PM (ESPECIALLY WITH 2 EAST COAST TEAMS!!!!!!!!!

then maybe there would be less mistakes (and more viewers)

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Posted By: Rob D.

Kerwin Danley was an umpire in the Texas League when I played there in the late 1980s. It was pretty well known around the league that he was on the fast track to the big leagues. The thing was, he wasn't considered -- at least by players and managers -- to be among even the top five umpires in the league. But he had good "size" and "mechanics." Trouble was, he just made a lot of bad calls and often was indecisive -- the kiss of death for umpires.

Danley was behind the plate in Game 2 of this Series. He's the one who literally made the signal for a called third strike, and then for some reason appealed to the first-base umpire on whether the batter had swung. The pitch ended up being a ball.

I laughed out loud. Twenty years later, same old story.

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Posted By: Anonymous

haha, steve

I used to worry about umpires being inconsistent, but I realized it's a constant for both teams so the outcome isn't too much in question. I'm rarely disappointed with umpiring anymore. It's just a condition of the game.

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Posted By: Wil Jordan

Each year the umpires/officials get worse we see it in most of the major sports. I was always under the impression that the best umpires worked the World Series. I can sure see it is not true with the large number of very bad calls. I have always felt that Kerwin Dandley is possibly the worst umpire in the history of the modern game I now see he has a lot of company. All we need is " country Joe West" and we would really have a mess.

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Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohen

The worst I ever saw was Eric Craig in a Marlins - Braves (I think) LCS. His strike zone must have covered 9 inches on either side of the plate. He must have had early dinner reservations.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

I remember that Eric Gregg game. Even Livan Hernandez is unhittable when you give him 10 inches off the outside corner. He was one of the umps that ended up losing his job for good when Richie Phillips staged that ill-advised walkout.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm with Scott- start the darn games at 7:00 PM if you don't want to play during the day. I'm tired of the excuse that they don't want to begin too early on the West Coast- nobody in California cares about these two teams.

I haven't seen enough of them to know whether the umpiring is bad.

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Posted By: howard

Bad calls ar nothing new in World Series play. Off the top of my head I can think of at least three bad calls that had huge effects on the outcome of one series in each of the past three decades:

1978 Reggie jackson kept an inning alive by intentionally deflecting a ball
w/his butt after he was already forced out at second.

1985 Don Denkinger called Jorge Orta safe at first when he was clearly out.

1991 Ron Gant was called out returning to first on a pickoff attempt even
though Kent Hrbek pushed him off the bag.

What has changed from the early days of baseball is that instant replay was invented and gets better every year allowing us to easily see umpire's mistakes.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey guys...

One other little bit of umpiring that annoyed me last night was on a ball someone hit/tapped/bunted up the first base line. The first baseman came in and fielded the ball on the grass... and there in the camara shot is the first base umpire pointing fair (the ball was nowhere near the baseline, it was about 6 feet fair). My point, it is the home plate umpire's call until ball gets past first base. THEN the first base umpire gets to dance and point.


It looked like a bunch of weekend umpiring. I expect better at that level. Maybe the weather was a distraction.


In the good old days (for all of us, that was when each of us was a kid) baseball always got the 'best' umpires to call the World Series. I'd like to see the umpires get a BUNCH more money for calling the Series, and then have them selected by merit.

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Posted By: Dave S

I was listening to ESPN radio yesterday and learned something I didn't know on this topic. Unlike the NBA and NFL, MLB ump-crews are not permitted to work World Series in consecutive years...and also are not permitted to work the Series in the same year they work a League Championship series. Result...2nd and 3rd tier crews...

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Frank, You are right about it being home plate umpire's call until the ball passes the bag, but I've seen that before, and I've often wondered if the first base umpire is merely indicating the home plate umpire's call so that the runner, whose back would be to the ball as he runs down the line, would have some indication as to whether the ball was fair or foul. I've not heard any discussion on this, but frankly, I'd rather be in the dark than to hear Tim McCarver's strained allegorical explanations or rule interpretations.

You are also right in your assessment of the umpires' performance in this series. They flat out blew that missed tag at third and the call in game three where Moyer and Howard combined on a beautiful play to get Crawford on a swinging bunt, only to have him called safe at first. Other inconsistencies and errors have been pointed out as well. I don't subscribe to the notion that we are not seeing the best crews either. The fact is that any crew should have got most if not all of these calls right, and there should not be that big a drop off from the best to presumably the second, third or fourth best crew. The World Series deserves much better from the blue than what we have been shown thus far.

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Posted By: Jason L

The other tangential topic covered here regarding the game start times is a far bigger issue than I think most people realize.

Fans lose interest if it goes so late all the time (and it does)
potential fans are lost because of lack of exposure (kids)

I have watched maybe 4 total innings of this World Series, and I consider myself a moderately huge fan of the game. I can't get into it if I know I can't watch but only a few innings each night.

It actually pisses me off.

My son has lost interest completely because these games that he can't see become irrelevant to him.

I think it is incredibly short-sighted of MLB. I understand all their reasons, but no one will ever change my mind on this.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Ahh... the "good old days", were when we were kids.


And when I was a kid the WS games were in the daytime. Now what kid out there wouldn't be more interested in baseball if it was an alternative to doing schoolwork in a classroom?

Oh for the days when folks would ask one another what the score was... when folks walked with radios, sometimes plugging them into an ear. Walk by furniture and tv stores to see the game on...


I'd like to see at least one game, maybe two, return to the daylight. But it will NEVER happen. MLB would never do something the fans want. The owners and the players want those prime time revenue dollars. The day has almost come for the Yankees to not play unless it is in primetime.


Amen, Jason,
Someone should email a link to this thread to the Commissioner and MLB. But surely they know what crap the umpiring has been, what an abismal decission it was to not call game 5 in the third inning and try again another day, and how divinely fortunate MLB was that Tampa Bay tied that game. I think MLB knows, and they don't give a rat's ass. They care not about the fans.