PSA OR IS IT??

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Posted By: Mack

I have come to the realization that PSA grading is a scary venture. I say this because of my experience with PSA. I sent a 1954 RED HEART MICKEY MANTLE to PSA for grading last year expecting a grade of 9. It came back a 6. Boy was I upset!! Over and over again I reviewed and read the grading standards and grade levels 1 through 10 and even looked at some of my other cards that had grades of 6 through 10. That 1954 RED HEART MANTLE should have been at least a 9. So as weeks went by I was looking on ebay and other sports card and memorabilia dealers for the 1954 RED HEART MANTLE. I came across a few 1954 RED HEART MANTLE"S of which 2 were being sold on ebay by MEMORY LANE INC out of Newport Beach, CA which is also home to PSA.. Now I am not a detective but rest assured question marks began poppin up all over my collection. Through simple minded research I have learned this: Joe Orlando, Editor In Chief of the PSA Sports Market Report is also the inside guy at MEMORY LANE INC which deals in sports cards and memorabilia and it just so happens that a lot of the cards MEMORY LANE INC has on ebay's auction block are of Very high Grade.. Maybe MEMORY LANE gets lucky with cards I don't know but assured that when I looked closely at my 1954 RED HEART MANTLE and then looked at the 1954 RED HEART MANTLE MEMORAY LANE had on ebay for auction I saw no difference whatsoever. I mean they were exact.
As a consumer I don't want to be told "Never Get Cheated" if I can't prove it either way. Simple question!! How do I know that I am not being cheated?? How do I know that cards are not being "juggled" or "fixed" or swapped for that matter. It seems to me that with PSA's recent move to allow for half grades says that maybe, just maybe we, PSA, "have not been on our game" and true collectors and customers "have been cheated" one way or the other". I have since been going Beckett and others at least my cards and things have a decent chance of honor!! No accusations here but there are some questions!!!! Inconsistencies prevail!!!

BILL MACK
trialb2002@yahoo.com

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Posted By: leon

Please put your full name and email address out here or I will need to delete your post. Even if I agree with you it doesn't matter. It's the rule and nothing personal...If there is some reason you can't then you can email me about it...thanks much....

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

2 sets of eyes are better than 1.

Crack it out and submit to SGC or Beckett and see what they say...

martyOgelvie
nyyankeecards.com

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Posted By: T206Collector

...a PSA apologist, and I recognize that potential conflicts of interest brew everywhere..... BUT....

I would bet even money that Beckett doesn't give your Mantle higher than a 7; and it will probably give it a 6.

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http://www.t206collector.com

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Posted By: Mack

T206

Thanks for the insight!! I have been going with Beckett but like you say I'll give the others a try!! I am convinced that it should be a 9 but I would settle for an 8. I have seen many other 54 Mantle Red Hearts graded and from seeing those others I know that my 54 Red Heart Mantle should be a high grade.. I do understand that maybe it won't change but now this is a quest!!


BILL MACK
trialb2002@yahoo.com

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Posted By: Mack

Thanks Leon for the heads up!! My name and email address is now attached!!

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Posted By: Mack

You can answer these questions I hope!! I have 57 T series cards mostly 206.
Who would you reccomend grade them?? Also I have a Walter Johnson auto ball from a friends great grandfathers attic back east. I would like to get it authenticated so that I can seal it for good!! Who would be best for this auto ball?? THANKS!!!!

BILL MACK
trialb2002@yahoo.com

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Posted By: Jason

Everyone gets disappointed with grades, but in my own experience I've come to accept the reality that I have rose coloured glasses when it comes to my cards. That said, I have had issues in the past. Best way is to send it to another grading company and see what they do.

If you want a more instant reply. Post the memorylane Mantle and your Mantle side by side in a nice scan so we can have a look.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks so much for your understanding...

TO EVERYONE ELSE.....see how Mack answered this? It's really this easy.....and is never personal.....ya'll take care

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Posted By: J Levine

The best way not to be disappointed by PSA (or the other graders for that matter) is buy raw.

Joshua

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Posted By: T206Collector

...for all of my T206 grading needs. They provide reliable and consistent grading, with terrific customer service.

Your tale of woe sounds like the first time I submitted cards to a grading service -- all the cards I thought were "mint" turned out to be 6s and 7s. It takes a little bit of getting used to, but once you learn the grading scale for a particular issue and a particular grading company, you become more adept at figuring out what those raw cards would grade as. I've had over 500 T206 cards graded by SGC, and I think I have a keen understanding of the differences among grades from SGC 10 through SGC 80, at least when applied to T206 cards.

Also, keep in mind that scans on the internet will make 1950's cards look the same, when the difference in grade is between a 6 and a 10. Indeed, fuzzy corners don't show up as well on-line. So you can't say, I've seen other cards on-line and mine looks just as good. You need to compare cards in person.

If I had to guess, I'd say your Mantle has a fuzzy corner or two. Or perhaps the centering is a bit off.

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http://www.t206collector.com

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Posted By: anthony

SGC is my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice of grader recommendations and PSA is a distant 4th...i only buy PSA from known sellers. i've had my bad experiences with PSA like everyone has to include mostly good ones, but i've yet to have a bad experience with SGC (knock on wood!)

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

I would also send it in to SGC (no membership needed), I also agree with some of the comments about anyones first submission. I know I was way off on what I though was mint, it was not what the grading companies feel is mint, you learn and get better with each submission.

As far as the ball PSA/NDA if you want it sealed and graded.

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Posted By: Adam

What does this mean:

"Joe Orlando, Editor In Chief of the PSA Sports Market Report is also the inside guy at MEMORY LANE INC"

Does it mean Joe owns part of memory lane? Please explain "inside guy" reference, I am confused.

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Posted By: Bill Mack

Joe Orlando is Editor In Chief of a well read and scripted magazine of importance to baseball collectors. While there are a lot of business between the two the idea has been approached as to PSA and Memory Lane and high value cards and sets fetching nice $$$$. As a consumer and as some fellow collectors have stated "WE WANT TO BE SURE WE ARE GETTING OURS" and not cheated especially if we don't have inside access!! It's not the money being a major concern it is the "collectibles" that we are concerned about and if there are insiders then we need to know about it!!! After all, we the collectors, are what makes this business thrive and like public consumer issues in years past, business has a tendency to cheat the consumer!! This is not a market fair game to cheaters.
Again, this is not a blame game at this point however there are inconsistencies with how the cards are graded and who gets what especially when you have a 2+2............

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Posted By: cmoking

What tangible or logical reasons do you have to say that Orlando is a Memory Lane inside guy? I dont' care about suspicions. Give me facts, not hyperbole...and not "because my card got a 6.".

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Posted By: JimB

Bill,
I bet if you post a scan of your card, we can tell you why it got a 6. If the cause of your 6 grade is not immediately observable, it may be that there is a very subtle wrinkle on one side. Look at it under magnification and a light. Then shift the angle a bit and you will probably see it. There is no need to throw unfounded accusations around.
JimB

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Posted By: dan mckee

There is a very simple way to ensure that your cards do not get swapped out by a grading company that you submitted to. Just put your initials on the back of the raw card in ink before submitting it.

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Posted By: Brad Larson

TPG companies are here to stay. If we were having this discussion in the past, you saying "it's a 9" may have some validity, but if you are looking to have this card graded by a TPG, then the grade that you give it has absolutely ZERO validity. I'm not saying that don't have a 9 (although there are many factors than may be keeping your card from achieving that grade such as gloss, scratches, etc., which would be pretty hard to see in a comparison to an auction scan), but if you're not willing to accept the grades given by TPG's, than don't have your cards graded. It's just getting so old hearing the "my card is "this grade" but it came back "this grade." Pretty simple solution imo, collect raw.

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Posted By: Brad Larson

Also, if you are suggesting that PSA swaps cards, I think that you may want to evaluate your TPG expectations a little further so you don't always expect that you will receive the grade you think your card deserves. PSA is a publicly traded company and the reprocussions of doing business in the way that I think you are suggesting are not worth the penalty for doing so.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...of raising your concerns would have been to say:

"I am concerned about what I perceive as a potential conflict of interest between [insert grading company] and [insert auction house]. Does anyone have any concerns that there is not enough transparency between the grading company and the auction house, such that a card might be intentionally overgraded?"

This way you avoid bringing in your personal frustration over a low grade into the equation. Also, you do not throw blind accusations against a wall. I think the responses you'd get from this question would be much more responsive to your concerns than what you are getting.



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http://www.t206collector.com

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Posted By: boxingcardman

"There is a very simple way to ensure that your cards do not get swapped out by a grading company that you submitted to. Just put your initials on the back of the raw card in ink before submitting it."

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