Crossover trimmed question

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Posted By: Bryan Long

Just want to take a short poll. I also don't want to create a PSA bashing thread here, so please don't take it that way. I am working on a SGC graded 1948 Bowman set and awhile back I purchased some high grade PSA 48 bowman cards. One of the PSA 7 cards came back from SGC as trimmed - I don't have a scan yet but will post one once I can. I am curious as to just how often does this occur with everyone here? It is talked about a ton - I know, but how often does it happen? Has anyone sent something graded by SGC to crossover to PSA and had the card come back as trimmed?

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Did you break them out and submit...or submit them in their PSA slabs?
Just curious,

Shawn

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Posted By: JK

Brian,

A few years ago, I sent card shown below to SGC for crossover (I did not crack it out). It was not crossed because SGC believed it to be trimmed. I sold it in the PSA slab with disclosure that SGC would not cross it (and the reason why) - I still regret doing so.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I sent all the cards in still encased in their PSA slabs.

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Posted By: Larry

"I sent all the cards in still encased in their PSA slabs."

oops, that explains it. The grading companies are very spiteful when it comes to crossovers and competition.

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Posted By: JK

" The grading companies are very spiteful when it comes to crossovers and competition"

I disagree - at least as to SGC. Other than the one example noted above, Ive submitted probably a hundred cards to SGC for crossover - the majority have crossed and several have been bumped up a half grade. The only cards that I generally have problems with are upper mid grade cards (5s and 6s) that look nice but may have a small wrinkle - SGC will not cross those to 60s or 80s with a crease. Im not saying that its right or wrong or that psa was right or wrong in its assigned grade - only that I know what SGC's standard is (no wrinkles) and they consistently adhere to that standard.

Ive never once thought that a card was rejected out of spite or due to the competition between the grading companies (at least as to SGC).

I have heard rumors that psa and gai have engaged in such conduct, but there is a little more history between those two companies to explain it if it indeed does occur.

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

Competition aside, I'm sure the grading companies are much more conservative with crossovers than they are with raw cards, since a card is considerably more difficult to examine when inside a holder (especially the edges). In other words, if they crack a card out of its holder, thinking based on initial inspection that they can meet your minimum grade, but then on closer inspection decide that they can't meet that grade (or even validate the card's authenticity), the grading company is stuck. They don't want that to happen, so they probably err on the safe side.

Thus, I believe you are more likely to get the grade you want from a grading company if you send a card in raw. Unfortunately, if you crack a card out and send it in, and the grading company decides they think the raw card is trimmed, then you are stuck. You now have a card that is professional deemed to be trimmed, that is not residing in a holder. You could then re-submit it back to the original company of course, but there is a risk that they will reject it this time around -- for example, if they have become better at detecting alterations, or have become more conservative in what they are willing to authenticate, since the time when the card was originally holdered.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I agree with Larry and Josh. SGC and PSA are cool with crossovers of each others' cards; I find that PSA rejects an inordinate amount of GAI cards.

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Posted By: Glyn Parson

"oops, that explains it. The grading companies are very spiteful when it comes to crossovers and competition. "


I can assure that this is simply not the case. We cross over a very large number of PSA cards every week. We would be foolish to reject correctly graded unaltered cards in other companies holders. We want nothing more then to remove quality cards in the competetitions holders from the market place and have them encapsulated in our holders. The more quality SGC cards on the market the more they sell and the more registry sets begin to be built. Then we get more submissions and profits increase. It would be business suicide for us to reject unaltered properly graded cards from being crossed over to our holders.

Thank You,
Glyn Parson
SGC

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I have always liked SGC. I was only curious as to how often this may occur with board members. SGC has been nothing but wonderful to me so I have no complaints. I will wait until I get the card back to see if I can find what they found.

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Posted By: Chris

Bryan, I had this happen with a BVG 7, Psa 5 and a Gai Nm+. I now crack and submit. It may be as simple as the holder makes it difficult to judge the size of the card. After cracking each card mentioned above and resubmitting they each returned in a Sgc holder.

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Posted By: Richard Cline - RC

Glyn - That is exactly what came to mind as I read some of the earlier posts. It simply doesn't make business sense to not holder a card that has previously been graded by a competitor, unless of course it doesn't meet minimum specifications.

Even with what may be "bad blood" between companies, I would think you would want it out of your competitors holders and into your own.

RC

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Posted By: Bryan Long

Chris,
Is that true? Once it was rejected and then not rejected and graded? I assume different graders looked at the card and decided in a different direction. That is interesting - Call me stupid, but I never gave it much thought to cracking it out and resubmitting it.

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Posted By: Chris

Bryan, I did submit the three cards. I think it's a question of being able to measure a card that is in a holder or being able to look at a cards edges with the plastic holders ability to destort the cards image. I can see Sgc's point if that is the case. They are first class all the way and I believe they would rather not crack a card that is questionable then to crack it out , find out for sure it's trimmed and completely devalue their customers card. IMO