EBay Feedback Games

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Posted By: Frank B

As a buyer-only thus far I have run into quite a bit of this
and I need to understand why I should be OK with it because
right now I am not. Recently I have just not left feedback
for those who operate this way. Experienced sellers please
explain why this common practice is OK.

Seller either notes in listing or states on invoice that
they will only leave feedback for the buyer if the buyer
leaves feedback first. This is where I have a problem because
once I'm paid in full my end of the deal is pretty much done.
What more is the seller waiting for from me? Doesn't this make
it less about how the other party conducted themselves and
defeat the purpose of the feedback system?

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Posted By: G. Maines

Yes.
As a buyer, I do not leave feedback first.
Therefore, most transactions result in no feedback.
That is ok.

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Posted By: double-p-enterprises

Simple - there are a ton of morons on Ebay with little feedback. Why would an experienced seller jeopardize their feedback for someone who may not have the best interests at hand. When you get to several hundred or thousands of feedback, you can do the same. Until then, if you want feedback, leave it first or go without.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

It is a game that I as a seller do not play. Once a buyer has paid he gets feedback.

When I as a buyer receive an item and am satisfied I leave feedback regardless of whether the seller has done so. Don't like sellers who don't leave feedback even though I have but that's life, I guess.

And while we're at it I bought an item BIN for $700 last month. Paid immediately with paypal and never got feedback from the seller. Mr. seller if you're reading this, shame on you.

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Posted By: Lance

As a seller, you never know what a buyer is thinking. I only respond to buyer's feedback after feedback is left to me. I also will leave feedback immediately after receiving the card purchased if it is what I expected. Of coarse, in a perfect world, every deal would be made with complete integrity. Buyer's have become so skittish because of the scams that a seller can't afford to risk an improper negative by posting feedback first. I do this because I offer a "no questions asked" return policy and try to resolve any problems with the deal before a negative is left. I have 2 negs to my name...both as a buyer and in my first 4 deals. I didn't quite understand the system at first. When it comes down to the bottom line, the guy who sells more than buys has a lot more to lose when it comes to negatives. Right or wrong, if I receive a negative, I return the favor and go to the resolution board to try and make things right. I have only done this twice and both were misunderstandings on the buyers part.

This is just my viewpoint.

Lance

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I almost always leave feedback as soon as I ship an item out..sometimes I forget, but for the most part as a seller I always leave feedback first. As a buyer I always leave feedback as soon as I receive my item and am pleased with it....I don't care if they leave feedback for me or not. I have noticed that most sellers I buy from leave feedback after I have done so and I don't think it's that big of a deal.

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Posted By: Eric B

Gil does not sell on Ebay so he doesn't understand why he is backwards on this.

As a seller you would be making a poor business decision to leave feedback first. If you do so you are at the mercy of the buyer. He can claim no receipt, damage, missing pieces, unfair postage, etc. and then demand a full or partial refund without any fear of reprisal. Proof is not necessary since the buyer holds all the cards.

My neighbor used to give feedback upon Paypal receipt. He received many ridiculous negs. A few that come to mind is one for slow delivery (arrived 4 days after payment across the country for first-class ground package), another for a pair of shoes that didn't fit (they were the correct size and he offers full refunds and they didn't ask) and another for poor communication (buyer wanted to know how what color shirts would match the pants he purchased). His business suffered and changed his policy. Very few negs now at about 500 transactions a month.

Once a buyer receives the product, his feedback is confirmation that the transaction is complete and the seller can then do his part.

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Posted By: Chris

IMO the feedback system is good but flawed. As a buyer your only obligation is to pay in a timely fashion and provide an accurate shipping address. The rest of the transaction on Ebay is the sellers responsibility. I for one leave feedback once payment is received and as a buyer leave feedback once the item has arrived. Looking at my feedback history it's clear that I have left feedback for 125 more auctions than have been left for me. I think Ebay should force feedback to be left by both parties. The new feedback system should also work both ways. The seller should be able to give individule ratings like the buyer. Speed of payment, completion time of received invoice and communication skills to name a few. There are more than a few I wanted to give some less than positive feedback for and wished I could rate them as they rate me. Might be a bit much but the buyer should have to play by the same rules the seller abides by.

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Posted By: Alan U

I agree entirely with Steve, except I didn't buy a $700 card recently.

-Alan

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Posted By: Jimmy

I have been on eBay for 10 years and have always left feedback first for my customers. If a customer is dissatisfied I offer them a full refund when an item is returned to me in same condition. If I am the buyer I will leave feedback when I get the item. When you are selling all the time you have to come up with policies. The possibility of getting a negative is always there, but if you follow good business the chances of having a problem are limited to about 1% or less . It really is a choice, every buyer can decide what is best, I just feel if someone pays me on time they deserve good feedback. Once they receive the item they can decide the feedback for the services they received from me. Understand as a buyer you are in control and have the money and the item before the transaction is complete. I leave feedback when an item is shipped and always have free tracking for items 50.00 or more

Jimmy

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Posted By: Steve

A few minutes ago, I rec'd a note from a seller asking for feedback "If satisfied". As the buyer I feel obligated to leave feedback first, but not until the grade has been posted at PSA or SGC.

Soooo, Sellers of raw vintage should allow ample time for this process to run before expecting feedback.

Also, it is advisable to refrain from requesting FB as I know of some sellers receiving a spiteful and undeserved negative. Be careful what you ask for, many of these eBaynians are a french fry away from a Happy Meal.

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Posted By: Doug

I don't sell all that much, but I always leave feedback whenever I recieve payment for the item and I haven't had any problem. Maybe I'm lucky though...

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Posted By: Joann

Study break!

I used to always leave feedback for buyer as soon as I got payment, until my sister ran into a really really bad deal as a seller. She also used to leave immediate buyer feedback as soon as she got money.

She sold a cell phone to a low/no feedback buyer, rec'd payment, left feedback and shipped. Buyer claimed it arrived broken. He sent a photo that had like the whole flip almost broken off - no way my sister could have not seen it. Packaging not damaged.

He left her her first negative feedback, and she had already left the pos. They got into a huge PayPal dispute that my sister won ONLY because he could not prove that he had returned the phone.

His bidding history showed that he had won an almost identical phone in an auction that ended the day after he won hers, but before he had received the phone she sent.

Sooo ... I used to kind of take pride that I left immediate positive feedback for buyers on receipt of payment. When this happened to my sister I stopped the practice.

I think that what I learned from her experience is that the transaction with a buyer is NOT closed as soon as they send their payment. They continue to have responsibility to properly accept or reject the product that they receive.

So it's more than just a seller holding positive feedback "hostage" until the buyer leaves positive. The seller has a legit right to withhold feedback until all of the transaction is complete - not just payment, but acceptance and conclusion.

I now leave feedback when I feel that the deal is done and the buyer is happy, regardless of whether they have left me fb. I leave it on payment if the buyer has excellent and high feedback, or if I know the buyer from here. (All unless I get so disorganized and busy that I forget for several weeks.)

But I no longer leave it when the buyer pays - too much unfinished business at that point.

Break over.

Joann

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I sold and bought on the same day on eBay. The seller and the buyer both insisted I give feedback first. From that day on I pay no mind to feedback order rules. Whether I do it that day or wait a week I give give positive feedback when deserved. And, by the way, I gave positive feedback to both eBayers as the transactions went well.

If anyone in the future gives me his feedback order requirement, I'll tell him about the day the seller and buyer both required me to give feedback first, and ask him what he thinks my opinion of that day's feedback requirements should have been. At the least, he's going to appreciate why I may not take feedback orders as seriously as those giving them out.

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Posted By: james Dunn

feedback should be given when the transaction is complete. That only occurs when buyer has received the product and is satisfied. It's then easier for the buyer to leave feedback to signify the completed transaction.

But I guess it's OK to email the seller to tell them you are satisfied with the completed transaction and tell them you will give feedback as soon as they do it first. But that's petty and confusing to keep emails going back and forth. It's just easier to leave it first as a buyer upon acceptance. No matter what you will get more return feedback than if you do nothing. And there's no risk as a buyer.

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Posted By: anthony

for me as a seller and buyer, i refuse to leave feedback for someone first. the favors are not always returned. i'm tired of leaving feedback and not receiving one in return for both sellers and buyers. the only time i do leave it first is if i know the seller/buyer or if i have done transactions with them before. (because at that point, its not getting a point)

feedback doesnt do anything for me anymore, i no longer care if its given or not. i dont sell much anymore.

when in doubt, keep it!

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Posted By: David B

As a seller I will leave immediate feedback after payment to a well respected buyer. If not I email the buyer that I will post feedback in kind. As a buyer I post feedback when I receive the card, even though the seller may not have. It's not perfect, my feedback should be at least 100 more.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Frank B, you are right to be stirred up a bit...


When I sell, I leave feedback after I'm satisfied with the payment.

When I buy, I leave feedback when I'm satisfied with what I've received.

BUT, if the seller sends me one of those crap emails about leaving feedback after me, I send an email back saying I don't play hostage feedback games. Once he's satisfied with my money it is time for him to leave feedback. In those situations I usually don't leave feedback until after the seller has, except when I forget.

I got yanked around a bit by SportsCards Plus out west, several years ago, had a difficult time getting someone to take my credit card info over the phone, was on hold long distance for close to half an hour. I left 3 neutrals for them. Some kid out there immediately left 3 neutrals for me. Some higher-up and I exchanged letters about it. He said their feedback policy has changed to aviod such problems in the future... I never again bid on any of their stuff, haven't bought anything else from them. Fixing it in the future didn't repair the present, they cannot offer a card for sale that I'd want to buy from them.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

In defense of sellers and their ordering, a seller who had a good transaction with money paid in full, is highly unlikely to give an unfair negative feedback to the buyer. This is simply because a seller wants return customers. It would make no sense to offend a customer who pays good money and causes no trouble. If you were a good boy and give a good seller a positive feedback first, it's more than unlikely he's going to zap you with an undeserved negative.

Dubious buyers would probably be more likely to give out a dubious negative.

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Posted By: Lance

David hit the C Y A I mentioned right on the head!

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Posted By: Steve

Many sellers do not consider the transaction completed until the buyer has received the item and is happy. As a seller I will leave feedback first for those that i have dealt with b4. Those that I have not I simply ask them to leave feedback or email me when they have received the item. That way I know that the deal is now completed. Buyers that think a deal is done simply by paying are IMO wrong, many things can go wrong between the time an item is paid for and when it is recieved (or not received) by the buyer.

Those that demand feedback never get it from me. Those that act in a courtous manner usually do.


Steve

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Posted By: Larry

Those that demand feedback from me get an automatic negative.

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Posted By: G. Maines

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1148304082/

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Posted By: Bob

I guess I am old school like Steve Murray- when a buyer pays, he gets automatic positive feedback and when I receive my item from a seller, I give automatic positive feedback whether he has given me feedback or not.
Too old to play games....

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

OK what about this I buy a card and pay with paypal right away. Now I never receive the card so put in a claim with paypal. then wait a couple of weeks for paypal to invesagate and give me my money back. Then what do I do as a buyer first I can leave negitive feedback which is rightfully so and wait for my neg in return or just do nothing? If I do nothing then people do not know what the seller is doing which isn't that what feedback is for? But I don't deserve a neg for I did nothing wrong. So I leave it along and go to the next item. So really feedback is a load of bulls--t in my opinion. Rob