Large Gypsy Queen- not so large

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Posted By: leon

I still need one of these. I had a very nice snipe all set. I don't think PSA got the trimming right as I think it's just miscut (imo)....but they definitely got the label wrong. I confirmed what I thought in that new N175 (small) poses are still being uncovered all of the time. The SCD says this pose is only in large...which is probably why PSA put it on the label. I had the seller measure this card, twice. I explained to him in my 2nd email about the size difference. This one measures 2 9/16 by 1 3/4 (give or take a 16th)......It is a small one...still a cool card....but not large. I hope no one is offended I outed this but I didn't think I should keep the info to myself....best regards

edited to amend: I haven't changed any words in the above statement. It looks like I was thinking of something else and do agree this card is miscut, as PSA says...I am surprised no one has pointed this out to me...it's a tough board sometimes.


http://cgi.ebay.com/1887-n175-Gypsy-Queen-Roger-Conner-Old-judge-LOW-POP_W0QQitemZ190176331659>

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Posted By: George

Hi Leon,
I'm just curious on the significance of this particular card that it would already be at such a high bid! I could buy a lot of nice T206's for that price. Please educate me (and maybe some other folks on the forum) : )

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Posted By: Phil Garry

George:

The level of scarcity is probably over 1000 times greater on the N175 than a T206 tobacco card plus this particular item is a 19th Century HOF'er.

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Posted By: George

WOW! Thanks Leon. That is several orders of magnitude larger than I would have ever imagined.

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Posted By: leon

N175's are very scarce in relation to most stuff we collect. I will SWAG a guess at known total population of large ones, untrimmed, of approx. 50-100.....Some will think less but I do think there are that many...with known about ones and unknown ones. The small variety N175 are very scarce too, in relation to most of what we collect. I was speaking with a board member this morning that used to collect the small type. He said he had around 125 at one time (small). I know he is almost complete on large ones too...which there are about 9-10 different poses known today.....Hope this helps. I was really hoping to have a shot at this one...especially since I think PSA got the "trimmed" part wrong also.....but again, that is just my opinion...regards

edited to amend my statement. I agree with PSA that this is a miscut card.

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Posted By: George

Phil, Leon,
Thanks for the great info. Good luck bidding! Don't worry about any snipe bids on my end for this card...way out of my budget : ) Take care.

George

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Posted By: barrysloate

50-100 for large Gypsy Queens sounds too high. I'll guess more like 30-50 for the total population.

And small N175's picturing Hall of Famers are very desirable and quite expensive.

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Posted By: leon

I think both of our assessments on population are correct and both are accurate. I am one of the folks that think there is a heck of a lot of stuff we don't know about. I was thinking 50 known and up to 50 unknown.....All N175's are pretty neat, imo. regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Well, my high end and your low end intersected at 50, so let's say around 50 are out there.

And 50 unknown? That number sounds too high.

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Posted By: leon

Barry- somewhat pessimist (much like my wife )

Leon- somewhat optomist (probably overly optimistic)


I think we make a great team, Barry!!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Optimist.

Yes, I am the eternal pessimist. You've got me pegged.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Have all been small stature. I've seen only three different (there may be two more) and only one example of each. Since it seems the pop of OJ/GQ boxers is much smaller than the pop of baseball cards, this would be consistent.

Does anyone know whether Goodwin used this particular style for any card subjects other than baseball and boxing?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Thanks Leon.

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Posted By: leon

I never got the hang of "tiny url guy". I know it's been explained many times...I went back and edited this one but the damage was already done. I'll try to be more careful in the future...Can't you just give the moderator a free pass, just once?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

No problem....I just think that it's been explained to people so many times there are other options out there than to post a long URL that it gets a little frustrating. If I open up a new thread and realize that I'm going to have to scroll left to right to read it, I either don't read the thread or I will ask for the long URL to be changed. I'm sure I can't be alone in this thought.

As for the Gypsy Queen - Just another case of a grading company getting it wrong. Probably because they don't have anyone on staff who is a collector of 19th century cards.

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Posted By: Paul

Why would PSA refuse to grade a miscut card???? I thought the miscutting would just lower the grade, not eliminate it.

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Posted By: JK

So, what do you Gypsy Queen experts think of the hammer price on this card ($3600+). Its a nice looking card and if it grades probably worth it, but what if it only gets an Authentic?

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Posted By: leon

Don't know if I am an expert, but the other board member who is as much of one as anyone, and I, agreed yesterday that this was a 3000-3500 card.....It should be an SGC 20 (maybe a 10) and was exactly where we thought it should be (value wise)....This is a classic case of what I have been saying about PSA....they just don't know these issues. I will never forget the N172 Delehanty I sent to PSA...came back trimmed....no way on earth was it trimmed...I then sent it to SGC...came back an 84....I sold it to another board member during the middle of the grading (for way less than I should have but such is life)......imho.......

edited to say they should have put this in a 1 or 2 holder...imho....

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Posted By: dstudeba

It was a nice card with a nice image

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

I'm no expert but I do have two Gypsy Queens (small). I thought the card might go for $4K+. A nice card, seldom seen, to say the least.

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Posted By: quan

congrats to the winner! i would love a few 19th century cards but unfortunately i'm clueless about them...and jay don't like to share

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Here is one of mine-from a fellow board member.

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Posted By: leon

Since we are here....here are my 3...all with a little twist....portrait, brownie champ, and regular....

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Posted By: Anonymous