Hall of Fame collectors

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Posted By: bill

I got down to 7 more needed before I started
to break up my collection a couple of years ago
I would have died had I gotten the last one and then
they vote in all the negro leaguers that are all
very hard to obtain.
so who collects the hall of famers and who's on your
want lists

bill

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Posted By: Ken W.

Yeah, that 2006 Negro League class greatly affected my completion percentage! Getting close, but still NEED:

Major Leaguers: Jesse Burkett, Ed Delahanty, Billy Hamilton, Bid McPhee, Amos Rusie

Negro Leaguers: Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson, Pop Lloyd, Leon Day, Hilton Smith, Bill Foster, Andy Cooper, Pete Hill, Biz Mackey, Jose Mendez, Cristobal Torriente

Pioneers: Harry Wright, George Wright

Managers: Frank Selee


I think I have got everyone else who is possible, including the Executives. Of course, some of the above list might as well be impossible, considering their rarity and expense.

My HOFers:
http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s290/triwak/

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Ken:

That's quite an interesting collection you have there, like you, the Negro Leaguers have killed my efforts. Those with known cards that I am missing are: Josh Gibson, Bill Foster, Pete Hill, Oscar Charleston, Pop Lloyd, Jose Mendez, Cristobal Torriente & Any Cooper. Among Pioneers with known cards, I am missing Albert Spalding, Henry Chadwick, Alexander Catwright & Candy Cummings. Otherwise, I believe I have everyone else and almost every one I have is a Rookie Card.

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Posted By: Ken W.

Yeah Phil,
I never have tried to play the rookie card game. This quest has been expensive enough just finding something contemporary. As you can see, I'm one of those who has a fairly broad definition of baseball "card," so that I'll at least have a fighting chance at completion. Hence, the Spalding baseball currency, etc. Oh, I forgot about the existence of that Henry Chadwick CDV, so I suppose I need him too! And, I think that I saw a Jud Wilson postcard from the 1930's in one of the recent auctions also. Yet another dream.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I collect 20th Century Major League Hall of Famer players, so that makes it a lot easier

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Posted By: Paul

I've got 'em all, or as close as you can get. I was down to one (McPhee) when the recent class of Negro Leaguers was elected. I picked up McPhee and all of the newly elected Negro Leaguers except for Pete Hill. As soon as Matt is foolish enough to give me a spare key to his house, the Pete Hill will be mine!

Aside from Pete Hill, you could argue that I also need the following (with my excuses in parentheses):

Mallorquina Bill Foster (known to exist only in uncut sheet form, so I figure it doesn't really count as a card).

G&B Al Spalding (I like to believe he was elected as a pioneer player, not an executive, so this doesn't count)

I genuinely would like to upgrade my T204 Burkett to a W600, since the T204 shows him as a minor league player manager, rather than a major leaguer.

For those of you striving for true completion, remember that Hugh Jennings was elected as a player. If you want a card when he was a player (and not just making token appearances while a manager) you either need his Alpha or the 1902 W600 showing him at the end of his playing career with the Phillies.

Incidentally, I don't count players/executives who appear only on studio cabinets or team cards, like George Wright and Henry Chadwick. Just my personal preference. That said, I'd love to own a Warren Studios Cabinet of George Wright or Al Spalding.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Still need: Pud Galvin, Jesse Burkett, the Wright Brothers, Spalding, Oscar Charleston and Pop Lloyd. In reality, I will eventually get the first 2, but the last 5 seem out of reach.

Frank

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Posted By: Jason L

because:
-Cost
-I like to think that you really can't pin down a consistent working definition of a rookie card from the pre-war era
-It can become difficult to even pin down a consistent working definition of a card from the pre-war era
-Players only, because the others don't actually belong in the HOF (Players would play the game with or without team owners and administrators, umpires are supposed ot be invisible and not affect the outcome of a game, so what's the point of honoring them? for what? go figure!)
-Ficusing on the rookies helps to satisfy my need for a system or a sense of order which wouldn't otherwise be there!

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I collect HOFers, but I'd drive myself batty if I put restrictions on what constitutes a "card".

Initially I wanted one card of every HOFer, but I recently sold off a lot of my postwar HOFers to focus on pre-1953. Now I have multiple cards of a lot of players. Eventually I'll want one of everyone again, but I figure I can pick up the postwar guys any time, and the older cards are more enjoyable for me at this time.

I also get sidetracked a LOT, and so I am required to spread my limited card budget around to a number of different sets I'm working on.

I have no discipline. Last night I had bids on two prewar cards on my want list, and while I was waiting for the auctions to end, I was sorting through stacks of 1981 Fleer because I decided to build that set a couple of weeks ago. A month ago I bought a bunch of vintage baseball gloves. I decided to build an E95 set and got bored with it before I bought my first card. I'm like a monkey.

-Al

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Posted By: Jason L

there are medicines for that!

'Building' a 1981 Fleer set?
My attention span is so short that my method for doing that would be to plunk down a bill at a dealer's shop and saying "Gimme 1 1981 Fleer set, please!"

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Nah, to me, cards is cards. So if I'm going to do a set, I do it card by card.

Although 1981 Fleer is easier because if I say "I'm gonna build a 1981 Fleer set" a few friends shipped me boxes of them that they had lying around (which was awesome). So I had a bunch of my own, and then I got a bunch more as gifts.

What I can't figure out is why, when I said "I'm gonna build a T205 set," nobody did that. Cards is cards, right?

-Al

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Posted By: Ken W.

I'd like to know where you were able to just "pick up" the newly elected HOF class of Negro Leaguers? It hasn't been very long since they were inducted and I have had a great deal of difficulty even finding anything for sale or auction (regardless of cost). Any ideas?

Also, has anyone ever attempted to find cards of the HOF sports writers and broadcasters? Technically, they are not considered inductees, but honorees instead, and they are not really HOFers, despite how they are referred to by their peers on TV. The only ones who ever played the game, as far as I know, are Tim Murnane, Joe Garagiola, and Bob Ueker. I think Milt Richmond might have played in the Minors. I'm sure there are cards out there for the more famous guys, like Harry Carey and Peter Gammons also. I don't know - probably a stupid idea!

Ken

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Ken:

This year, I started analyzing the Writers & Broadcasters in the HOF and have only come up with four that have career contemporary cards from their playing days: Bob Uecker, Jerry Coleman, Joe Garagiola & Tim Murnane (19th Century).

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Posted By: Ken W.

I forgot about Jerry Coleman.

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Posted By: Paul

Ken,

I have had the Torriente for many years, expecting him to be elected. I purchased the Mackey from a fellow board member and Cuban card specialist just before his election. We both assumed he would be elected and I paid dearly. I got Mendez in one of Ryan's auctions just after the election. I got Cooper from that same board member just after Ryan's auction, when I didn't win Ryan's Cooper.

Paul

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Posted By: Matt Goebel

I am always interested to see how HOF collectors view the cards of the Negro Leaguers, it seems like they fall in three categories:

- They absolutely have to have them, it's just a matter of cost and rarity.
- They don't know about them.
or
- They find some reason to justify not having to collect them.

Personally, I think they are some of the most interesting and important cards in the hobby, but I may be biased because that is what I collect. Realistically, the cards are so scarce (and now expensive) that many collectors will not have the chance to get them.

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Posted By: Ken W.

I definitely fit into catagory #1. Obviously a few guys may never happen (Gibson, Hill, Mackey). But I view this as a lifelong quest, so I am trying to be patient and never say never!

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Posted By: Mark

I think more collectors moved into category #3 the day that the 17 negro leaguers were voted in, particularly since one of the new guys in particular costs $230k.

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Posted By: peter chao

I'm in category 3, there are only a handful of Negro Leaguers in mainstream card sets. I really don't have any idea of where else to look.

It's already pretty expensive collecting other HOFamers, is there an alternative to the mainstream sets.

Peter

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Peter:

All Negro League HOF'ers who did not play in the Major leagues and have cards can be found in the various Winter League sets/postcards issued primarily in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela & Mexico. These cards range from 1910 - 1950 and will include Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston, Pop Lloyd, Cristobal Torriente, Jose Mendez, Andy Cooper, Pete Hill, Willie Foster, Biz Mackey, Martin Dihigo, Ray Dandridge, Hilton Smith, Leon Day, Willard Brown & Raymond Brown. I might have missed someone but that is the majority of them.

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Posted By: Jason L

For almost everyone, there is absolutely NO reason to include that category of card in your wantlist.

In my humble opinion, 1 of 1 is not collectable. Only 1 person can own the card, so there's really no sense in chasing it. That goes for everything, not just Negro League HOFers.

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Posted By: leon

In reference to you saying (not exact words) "it goes for any card, not just Negro Leaguers" I would politely disagree. I love rare stuff and the rarer the better. I don't use the term "rare" too often but any card with a known pop under about 10 is rare, imho. Unique cards are 10x more rare than the bottom of that scale...again, all in my mind. I certainly respect your view on it and am sure others share the same view..I wouldn't change my mind just because I couldn't have something to complete what I was collecting though.........Here's to trying to find the next unique card !! take care...

edited to say I hope no one asks how I know I am looking for my next unique card if it's unique . You just know it when you see it....

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Posted By: Jason L

and I didn't mean to disrespect you or others who engage in type-card collecting. Sorry about that.
I can certainly see where the thrill of the chase and the discovery of the previously unknown would be alot of fun.

But for me personally, I have to be content in browsing your website because I don't have the budget for the truly rare, or the patience to lie in wait for someone to sell a one-of-a-kind item!!! LOL

I should have finished my statement : ..."1 of 1 is just not collectable - by me!"

Cheers,
Jason

edited to add: I will say that, for me, I have to be allowed to exclude components of what I collect if it is not reasonably attainable due to rarity or cost or both. Because, life is hard enough, I don't want my hobby to add to my frustrations! ...But if I win the lottery, suddenly ALOT of things will appear on my attainable wantlist!!!

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Posted By: leon

Very well said.....have a good one....and btw, I am an armpit like the next guy....but appeciate the kind words about my collection none the less..And as are most collectors collections, it's a "work in progress".

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I tend to agree with Jason on his point. I enjoy collecting the earliest card issued of all Hall of Famers but usually do not include the unique examples such as Just So Tobacco, Allegheny, Henry Reccius, Alpha Photo Engraving, Willie Foster & Pete Hill. I also agree with Leon's point that the rare cards (under 10 in existance) play an important role and thus I do go after these types such as W600's, E107's, Cameo Pepsin Pins, Josh Gibson, etc.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

In the last 20 years there have been a total of 9 Negro Leaguers elected that have cards. That includes the 7 Negro Leaguers who were elected in 2006 that have cards. Of the 17 people elected in 2006, only 12 were players. Of those, 7 have cards.

Here is the entire list of Negro Leaguers that HOF collectors have had to add to their collections in the past 20 years:

Raymond Brown
Willard Brown
Andy Cooper
Leon Day
Pete Hill
Biz Mackey
Jose Mendez
Hilton Smith
Cristobal Torriente

Over that period, there were around 50 other inductees that have cards. In fact, HOF collectors have had to add more non-Negro Leaguers to their collections since 2001 than the 9 Negro Leaguers inducted in the past 20 years.

I'd be curious to hear how many HOF collectors abandoned their collections when Bill Mazeroski, Kirby Puckett, Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, Gary Carter, Eddie Murray, Dennis Eckersley, Paul Molitor, Wade Boggs, Ryne Sandberg, Bruce Sutter, Cal Ripken, Jr. and Tony Gwynn were all "let in" since 2001. I mean, that's 13 new cards to add since 2001. Compared to 9 Negro Leaguers in 20 years!!!

Let's hear from those former HOF collectors that gave up after so many players were "let in" in such a short time.

By the way, anyone willing to bid high enough could have gotten cards of nearly every Negro Leaguer that has one in the last Mastro Auction.

Also, if I recall correctly, there was an auction in May of 2006 that had cards of EVERY single Negro Leaguer that has a card. All of them. Pete Hill, Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson, etc. Even Willie Foster who only appears on an uncut sheet. Any HOF collector could have literally checked every Negro Leaguer off their list in one day.

Obtaining cards of every HOFer that has one is a lofty goal, but not an impossible endeavor. Even without the Negro Leaguers, it would still be an impressive collection. Just like it could be considered impressive to complete a T206 set without the bigs.

From "what is a card" to "what is a rookie card" to "what is a HOFer" I find it interesting how many different justifications we all use to define what we collect.

That's the beauty of collecting: we all get to collect whatever we want for whatever reasons we choose.

Otherwise, it would probably all be pretty boring, wouldn't it?

-Ryan

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Posted By: Wesley

Well said Ryan. Still it seems a large number of people have abandoned their Hall of Fame collecting goals after the entry of the seventeen Negro League players and officials at the same time. For whatever reason, when collectors realized that completeness had become almost unattainable or too cost prohibitive, many collectors just moved away from Hall of Fame collecting all together.

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Posted By: Wesley

This is unrelated to Negro League players but related to Hall of Fame collecting. Did anyone notice the price of the V117 Jim Bottomley that ended in Mastro last night? It was paired with a McKechnie card and sold for $2623.

Two years ago the same exact card sold alone for $6800. That is an incredible drop in price.

Does this represent softness in price for Maple Crispette cards? Or does this suggest less interest in Hall of Fame collecting?

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

I think the thought of paying over $200,000 for a Pete Hill card had something to do with the exodus of HOF collectors.

Frank

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Posted By: Phil Garry

The best bet for Pete Hill is to wait for a yet uncatalogued team postcard to be discovered picturing Hill and then who knows how much that would go for anyway.........

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Posted By: peter chao

That's a great line, "...we all get to collect whatever we want for whatever reasons we choose."

My sentiments exactly.

Peter

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Posted By: Brad

Wesley,

I was somewhat surprised about the drop in price (Wrong Auction???) "McKechnie was a free gift"! The winner of this auction made some nice money.

Has Maple Crispette cards softing in price? I don't believe so. If anything maples are more popular and being looked at more often by HOF and Type card collectors, prices have been going up in the last two years. There's also been steady in crease in submissions (SGC), it just a matter of time!

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I gave up on HOF collecting when they elected the rabbit - a man with no power, a stick in the .250s and the 20th century leader in errors (only beat out for all-time error leader by three 19th century guys).

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Posted By: peter chao

Gilbert,

Actually that's ironic, when I was a kid, I became fascinated by baseball history because of the cool nicknames. Rabbit Maranville was one of my favorite names...I had no idea of what type of ballplayer he was, but with a name like that I thought he had to be good.

Peter

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Posted By: James Feagin

"I gave up on HOF collecting when they elected the rabbit"

Wow! You're pretty seasoned then. You lost interest in 1954?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Brad and Wesley- I was the underbidder (along with a friend) on the Bottomley/McKechnie Maple Crispette pair, and was watching it closely since I too have a Bottomley rookie closing this Thursday night.

That $6800 price was realized nearly two years ago when the top rookie HOF collectors were in full swing. Since both have stopped collecting, you may now find some skewed prices. I think most rookie prices are still very strong, as many of the cards are highly desirable just as vintage cards. But you might find some anomalies, too.

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Posted By: Wesley

Barry, I thought I was the underbidder. In fact, at the end I thought it was just me and one other guy, as we would each wait until the 30 minutes elapsed before placing our bids.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Wesley- I had my trusty sidekick as the designated bidder since he stays up late. I assumed we were the underbidder. I stand corrected.

I just checked my account- we weren't even in the top five. I have to start paying more attention!