toughest T and E cards???

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Posted By: pat

lets get some opinions on the toughest tobacco and caramel cards to find in any condition.

i would say e107 breisch-williams for E cards. not sure about the tobacco. what are your thoughts?

pat

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Posted By: Marc S.

T231 is probably the toughest of the T cards, but I think it's so phenomenally rare that people discount and disregard it.

Obak Cabinets, Pirates, T208s and Plow Boys are all among the toughest of T-cards...

I think that the Darby's and G&B's are both significantly tougher than the E107s...

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Posted By: barrysloate

I bet I can name one person who doesn't disregard T231's.

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Posted By: Zinn

T231 is not a "mainstream" set and ought be discounted (sorry Leon) when answering a question of this nature. I think Marc is right on with his assessment of scarce "T" issues.

Darby's and G&B likewise are not mainstream. While admittedly rare they do not fall into a category of widely collected. Most collectors know of the rarity and owning one is for most out of reach and even thinking about collecting a set is impossible. E107 on the otherhand is the ultimate collectible "E" issue. Everyone(except the 25 Board Members who don't like caramel cards) wants one. Four or five collectors aspire to completing the set and are close. For me it is No. 1.

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Posted By: Glen V

What??? Darby and G&B cards are too rare, so they don't count... So the question is really "what's the rarest T & E cards that aren't rare?"

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Posted By: jerry

I would say E222's are tougher than E107's
Disregard, E222's are not Mainstream by any stretch of the Imagination.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

What About E221?... and Big Eaters?

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Posted By: leon

How can anything be considered mainstream when less than a few hundred of them are known? I don't see "mainstream" in the question posed either. Otherwise, lets just go back to T205 and T206....they are rare by shiny stuff standards.....Also, we better clarify what catalogue we are using. Do cards uncatalogued in the ACC count? How about not in the ACC but in the Sports Collectors Bible? I know E123(baseball) and E125 were not in the ACC but are sort of mainstream and are in the SCB... E107's wouldn't make my top 5 in E cards I don't think, if we include everything.....they are mainstream and one of the rarest in that category if we make "mainstream" part of it....For regular ACC stuff I would say (no unc's here)

E-rarest to not as rare (it's debatable)

e221
E100- type 2
e271
e222
e224-2
e224-1

T- (again very debatable...this is just my opinion but it could change)
T231
T200 large
T208
T100 generic?
T4
T217
T5
T214

best regards

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Posted By: Dan

What about T204's? Don't they fall in there somewhere?

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Posted By: dstudeba

T204s are relatively common compared to Leon's list.

e107s are also much more common then any caramels Leon listed. While maybe the "ultimate" for some, any issue that is in every Mastro auction should not be considered tough to acquire; expensive maybe, but not tough.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Don't forget the T215 Pirates (as someone pointed out early).

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Posted By: Zinn

I thought that any question regarding "toughest" T and E cards might be intended to guide a collector who may actually be considering what to collect. I probably read more into it than I should have.

But for me it is more meaningful to know whether T202 is tougher than T205, or T207, or T204, or whatever T card set you want to name because these are "mainstream", i.e. more widely collected.

"Tougher" to me doesn't equate to "rarity or scarcity". We've had these discussions before about what cards or issues are rare or scarce. All of the cards each of you named are admitedly rare or scarce and mostly unattainable.

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Posted By: Leon

Woops I left T215 Pirate back out....it's somewhere in there for scarcity


Zinn- Yes, I agree with you about your thoughts and to most folks it's better to know what they are collecting and the scarcity of them. That's not how the question was phrased but maybe it would have been more relevent ... Myself and a few other board members are the black sheep.....Didn't mean to get personal.....Also, as a type card/scarcity colletor the T231 happens to be very high on my favorites list. At the last National I was in line to eat a breakfast buffet and John Rumirez (sp?) asked me to sit with him. We had a great conversation. Although he is usually very quiet and reserved he has always been very friendly to me....God knows why??? At any rate he tells me over breakfast that he too has a T231 and even names the player and team....So my guess is there are more out there besides Baker and Bigbee....For anyone that doesn't know John, I believe he has the #1 table coming into the door at any National (or close to it)..He has the highest priority number possible to get his table reserved. He and a small group of others (I believe) have set up at every one of them....regards

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Posted By: Dylan

I dont think anyone mentioned E223 G&B chewing gum. I know its 19nth century but its catologed as an E card and they are tough! Also type 2 Texas Tommy is really tough E card, both much tougher than E107

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Posted By: Richard

I would put E125 up there for the e cards. With only a single example known for several of the cards and only a handful known for the rest, the set has to be up there as far as rarity.

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Posted By: Marc S.

It also depends on how you are defining tough.

Does "tough" mean the relative difficulty in finding a type card from the set?

Or does "tough" mean completing a set?

Because there are different answers to both, or the answers might float around a little bit, I think. One of the reasons E107s is so relatively "easy" on this list is because a type card is obtainable, whereas an entire set is something that few could ever hope to achieve, even with an unlimited budget.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Obak Cabinets have to be high on the "T" list.

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Not Type 1 e107s, but I'd consider putting Type 2 e107s on the list. Of the players I've seen so far, there are no more than 3-4 of each in existance and there's a couple that have been catalogued that I've never seen at all. Kind of a small set too since there's only 8 players catalogued.

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Posted By: Andrew

Leon listed this as one of the toughest. Is this a variation of the Fatima team cards that are occasionally listed, but ones I didn't think are rare?



"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Anonymous

Andrew if you look at the back of a normal T200 it actually provides a "special offer" for enlarged team premiums, this is what Leon is referring to.

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Posted By: Andrew

Okay, thanks for confirming that I wasn't sitting on a goldmine.

...nope, don't have one of those.

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Bob

Touhest tobacco issue? Now that SCD has classified the E98 Old Puts as "t cards" and given them a "t" designation, they have to be near the top. We can argue all day as to whether or not they SHOULD be designated as tobacco cards, but as long as they are, I think they are near the top in scarcity.

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Posted By: Dylan

Well if your gonna give the Niagra baking cards(E101's with an overprint stamp) their own catalog designation you might as well give old put their own too... but that could get a little ridiculous as there are many overprints. I think these overprints are cool, but I think they belong as a setset within their parent card catolog designation and not a standalone set with their own catalog designation.

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Posted By: Cobby33

...then there's Toy Town, which spans across several different issues.

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Posted By: Jimmy

Someone above asked about T204 cards - as a issue yes common, I have to say the TTT backs and square cards have been very tough to find - only had one of each in the past 5 years.

Jimmy