The Sum of Our Collective Knowledge

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Posted By: barrysloate

When I'm not posting on the board about Don Imus, I am absolutely amazed at how much we all know about vintage baseball cards. There doesn't appear to be a single set that we don't have at least one or more board members who have collected it for years and know it inside out.

Wouldn't it be a great project to produce our own vintage card encyclopedia? Each person who feels he knows a particular set well could write a detailed article on the subject. Ted, Brian, Scot and others could tackle T206 ( Scot already has); Robert Adesso could expand on D304; Scott Mosley on Baseball All-Stars, and on and on (please forgive the many I left out).

The sum total of the knowledge on this board is simply unprecedented. It could surpass anything ever written on the subject.

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Posted By: Dave

I agree Barry.....the knowledge and collecting experience of the board memebers here may never be equalled. I've learned more in the last few months about vintage material from board members than I have in several years of trying to research on my own

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Posted By: Steve M.

to be a "card" I'm willing to tackle:

1906 Sporting Life W601
1906 Ullman

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Posted By: barrysloate

Steve- anything you feel you know well would be a valuable part of a book. I know pre-league material well, such as CdV's and Peck & Snyders, so that would be my contribution.

I admit this may never get past a theoretical stage, but we all collectively sure know a great deal.

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Posted By: Jason L

Perhaps there is a spot on this site that could act as a repository for set knowledge...meaning a page (or book chapter, if you will) could be built for people to add their thoughts on a particular set...then after some end point, it just needs to be edited and compiled...that would be a truly amazing accummulated knowledge base...all in one spot...

just a thought...not sure that the site has proper functionality, but the "drop in and add what you know" approach could be powerful.

neat idea, Barry...I have no doubt you are correct.

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Posted By: George Gogol

Wikipedia for cards, sounds like a great idea that we could all benefit from.

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

My knowledge is lame compared with the rest of you, but I'd volunteer my editing services if it ever comes to that.
That's what I do for a living -- copy editor.

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Posted By: Trae R.

George G. nailed it. This is a GREAT idea. I have something to offer... I will email you, Barry.

Regards

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Posted By: Jerry

Barry

Thats the best Idea for a Book I've heard since Kramer's Coffee Table Book about Coffee Tables that was a Coffee Table.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

This is an excellent idea, a wonderful post.


"We" need someone to accumulate the information and assemble the information on the various card issues in a consistent format, then figure out how to publish that in a book. Maybe call it The Collaborative Encyclopedia of Vintage Baseball Cards, or something like that.

Someone puts together a list of all of the issues (I use that word instead of "set", since there's lack of agreement as to what's in which set). Then folks can volunteer to offer information for various issues. The work in progress is circulated among those folks, revised, and returned to the coordinator. We all kick in some money and get the thing published.

What we need is that coordinator, a master editor... probably needs to be someone in New York, the epicenter of all (good, bad, and mediocre), needs to be a somewhat recognizable name, maybe someone who has some sort of reputable card activity, maybe an auction fellow, wouldn't hurt any if he was well educated, someone who doesn't see red lines when he posts here, if only he'd taught college... an easily pronouncable, memorable name, 2 syllable first name, a strong one syllable last name, initials BS, would be clever.

Who could we get?

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

I would think a controlled access Wiki is the way to go. Is there any reason a print book is even needed with the ubiquity of the web? I like books as much as the next guy and 99% of the time will opt for one over a digital file of same but for this project all digital seems to be the perfect way to share and "publish" the material.

Picture a T206 Wiki page: You could have Heitman and Reader's monograph's, other monographs whose authors names are escaping me at the moment , Jon Canfield's work on packs, Ted Z's work on back subsets and sheet sizes, a full gallery of misprints (which if gathered in one place might be a most useful aspect in determing how the cards were printed), maybe even some of Buck Barker's original notes and checklists from the Leon collection. A list such as Ted's Polar Bear No Print list could be added to at will (or through a moderator dude type person). The Super Set data could be online as well, etc. It would be fabulous having it all in one place!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Frank- I think I am getting in over my head.

I would happily write a chapter and help where I can, but we need somebody young and energetic to take the reins

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

How old are you??? I'm 52.

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Posted By: barrysloate

55 this summer.

And to answer Dave, it wouldn't have to be a book, good point. It's more of matter of getting everyone to write an article on a set they feel they have expertise.

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Posted By: Steve M.

that isn't that what we do in Old Cardboard anyway.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

Are you thinking on something for the web or something to be printed? As a designer I would be happy to donate my skills to such a project.

.

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Posted By: Trae R.

This is such a great, great idea! The only way I can contribute is by sticking to what I am good at, the techy side of things... so the domain and Wiki have been setup:

http://www.VintageBaseballWiki.com

It may not start showing up for you just yet, give it a day or two. Sometimes when a domain is first introduced to the internet it takes a couple days to get propagated throughout the entire world wide web.

Anyway, there is a link that explains how posting content works on the main page. I would also be happy to answer questions anyone has on the software, or even post their content for them. The best part about the wiki is that the users control the content. So it can be as big or as small as you all make it. Right now there is no content.

Thanks to the power of the internet I had all of this running inside of an hour!

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Posted By: barrysloate

That is exactly what Old Cardboard is doing, but they run 2-3 articles per issue. There are hundreds of sets. I loved the article in the last one on D304's, but if I need to research T214's I'm out of luck.

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Posted By: George Gogol

Trae,
Your site is great, and it is accesible now. Great work and very fast. I think the web is the way to go, at least at this point. The information will pour in quickly. A head editor, to decipher any wrong information is needed, so it isn't exactly like Wikipedia. Eventually, maybe it could be adapted in to a publishable hard copy. A large unveiling at the national, 2008. Okay maybe a little too soon.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

This is a great idea. Who will lead the charge?

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Posted By: Trae R.

Thanks, but it's definitely going to be our site - I just wanted to help get the motor started and the wheels turning. It's up to all of us to drive the proverbial vehicle. As far as the editing goes, anyone can edit anything so feel free to start plugging the pieces in. I will add to the T206 stuff once it gets going. I have quite a few things I think would be helpful but I will let the veterans go first.

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Posted By: Trae R.

For anyone interested in learning more about what exactly a "wiki" is, here's the definitive answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

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Posted By: Trae R.

To start a page or section (for example t206) type the search term in the box on the left titled "search". If it has already been created it will show up in the search results and you can add to or edit the info on that issues page.

If this issue has not already been created a link will be displayed to "create this page" in which case you can begin adding content to the page.

trae@t206.org for any question relative to the software.

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Posted By: Joann

Damn. I sure wish I had some expertise in something.

What a completely great idea. Web-based so it's always current, but a book would be nice too. Guess I'm a throwback - I still prefer books and newspapers to online, even though I do a lot of online reading.

Include a feedback or comment section for each article so people could point out updates, omissions or even mistakes. Peer-review would also do much of this, but I'm afraid there could be too much there by way of personalitites, politics, etc. But something to help alleviate the current and growing knock on Wiki - that much info is suspect because it is posted freely.

I don't think it would do what Old Cardboard does, and what VCBC did, and what Trader Speaks did. The content in terms of articles would/could be the same, but the structure, collation and presentation would be totally different and serve a different end.

Trying to find any particular article from a set of magazines is difficult to do even if you remember it was there and approximately when. Having something centralized and indexed would be much more useful in that respect. I love the periodicals because I read about things that I wouldn't normally be investigating. As tools for looking up information though, they don't do that as well - they aren't made to or meant to do that.

How about a section/article on reprints? Which sets were reprinted, when and by who. Maybe scans of reprints showing how they are or can be identified, etc. I could definitely work on that - at least to cover some of the major sets. Scope creep - I know. But to non-advanced collectors this kind of info can be very helpful.

But the value of having the knowledge of the participants here being collected and accessible in one spot is almost mind-numbing.

Joann

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Posted By: Alan

Great idea Barry !!!

How about images on a CD or DVD ? There could be a link on this message board set up to download the compressed images or send X amount to whoever to get the physical disc.

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Posted By: Paul

Great idea. I'm a dead ball era postcard guy, & have been studying authentication of pre war cards for some years now.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think each article would require its share of pictures.

How many would be needed would vary. I don't think an article on T206 would require 524 photos of fronts and some 35 or so back variations, but an article on E93 might offer a complete photo gallery. Collectors would need to share their images to facilitate the project.

I could write a comprehensive article on CdV's and photographic trade cards from the early 1860's to 1875, but I would need the assistance of other collectors to provide images.

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Posted By: Dylan

I remember a while back checking out a link to a wikisports site that was using wikipedia format but devoted only to sports related topics. I dont know if it ever got off the ground... I think having a wiki "vintage card" site made by net54 users would be awesome. Most sites with info on vintage cards only have short overviews. Now I understand that their are some magazines that are devoted to vintage cards which have made a de facto encyclopedia over the years, but to have all that material in one place, online, in a fluid format, sounds extremely useful guys

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Posted By: Jason L

at the top of the forum page so as to avoid having to avoid finding this thread each time someone wants read or add to the Wiki...?

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Posted By: barrysloate

If we did it online instead of in book form, collectors could just write an article in their area of expertise as time permitted. The site could start with a single article and build from there. If you see nobody has done one yet on Ramlys, and you feel you know the set well enough to offer a detailed account, then just go ahead and add it. Two collectors could work together on it and pool their shared knowledge. It could be a continual work in progress.

I think a book format would be great, but it would entail a tremendous amount of time to coordinate, and no small expense.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Beckett Media HAS an Beckettpedia already set up -- and the more in there the better

Rich

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Posted By: leon

While I am reluctant to add too much to the top of the front page, on Net54, I am open to an idea like this. If something is this monumental then I am all for helping anyway I can, through Net54. Keep the brainstorming and ideas coming. I will even add any expertise I have in the area of "backs", which is probably the only thing I know fairly well....and my "back" knowledge excludes T206's. I have not really tried to remember the nuances of them. I think we probably have a few folks that know them anyway ......This is a great idea imo.....regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- any article adds to the pool of knowledge. If you want to talk about rare and obscure type cards, that would be useful. Anything that isn't there that can be added by anybody will be an asset (of course, spelling and grammar count!!).

This thread has brought up that there are many sites of this kind already. As Rich Klein has just cited, Beckett has one already and I was not even aware of it. I think perhaps the most important aspect of this would be to merge all the information together. I have a huge baseball library, and when I need something I know I have it somewhere- but I can never remember where. If everything were in one place, I can't tell you how much time it would save.

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Posted By: leon

Rich K (hi Rich) is one of my best friends in the hobby, we go to lunch at least once a month, but I don't trust the company he works for too much with this issue. They put out that Ruth's rookie is a Goudey!! I know they have their reasoning but really.....I would prefer this groups (Net54) knowledge over the new owners of Beckett. If Jim Beckett were still running the show this wouldn't even be a question. He seems like a great guy from the several hours I spent with him at the last National. He is/was a type card collector too. What more could I ask for?? I could work with my right hand man, Brian M., to make a section on this forum....or we could do the one Trae has made (which I haven't even clicked on yet).....but I am not too fond of one on the Beckett site...however, if that's what is voted on then so be it...I am really open....regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Nobody has voted on anything- this is our first day of discussion and the project will be ongoing. Trae's wikipedia idea is a good one as it allows the site to grow as people contribute. I do think there should be some level of editing as we would want the site to look professional. I would be happy to help in this area if people wouldn't find me too meddlesome.

I don't know how we would do pictures. Collectors would have to be willing to share images as that is almost as important as the text itself. And likewise, there are many sets where collectors have for a long time kept their secrets to themselves. Would they be willing to let the cat out of the bag and share that information? Only time will tell. Perhaps the set that most people would like to know more about is N172, and I'm sure collectively we know an incredible amount about it. But is everyone willing to share?

Well, like I said, this is ongoing. We can keep kicking it around as long as the enthusiasm is there.

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Posted By: Preece1

I know how to buy rare vintage cards for way more that they are worth.

Should that be included in this knowledge bank?

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Posted By: Steve f

We all pay too much. It's 'selling for too much' that's the trick.

This sounds like a good idea Barry. Though I've got nothing to offer.

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Posted By: Trae R.

I've started a page on T206:
http://www.vintagebaseballwiki.com/wiki/T206

I am learning as I go too, and I as I mentioned above I would be happy to help anyone get their content onto the site.

As for the images, anyone can upload an image for use in an article. I would be happy to color correct, crop etc. once they have uploaded it and then update the file with the new better looking one.

I appreciate the interest in the wiki and think that once all of the contributors either A) get past the learning curve or B) find someone who is comfortable to post their content for them t will really start to grow.

Taking the first step will be the hardest but once you get used to the formatting of the pages and content it will become pretty easy to add and edit.

Going to go practice my chip shot... then I will put some more content on the T206 page.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Patrick- that's the only topic so far that I will have to give some thought to. But we'll figure something out

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Posted By: Richard Masson

I kicked this idea around quite extensively after last year's National. The problem with a print version is it would be expensive to do it right and the market just wouldn't be very deep, so it would have to be a vanity printing. Many fine articles were written for VCBC and others which need to be updated and re-released. I believe the bulk of topics for such an encyclopedia have already been written; they simply need to be reissued. A further problem is that much of the editorial content is owned by individuals and VCBC (or the guy that bought the remains). Any idea how we unlock that?

If an online source is anticipated, we already have the beginnings of such a thing at oldcardboard.com.

Another thing to consider is that in a way, writing on each set in depth and publishing today will hurt Old Cardboard, because none of ts editorial material would no longer be unique. I think that would be bad. Perhaps as each set is addressed in the magazine, the article could become available via the Gallery online, but that too would hurt sales of back issues. As a hobby, we want to support Old Cardboard and that should be the vehicle for short, pithy articles on off the beaten track cards and sets. Treatises like Scott's on T206 are another matter. Those are the kinds of studies to which we would like to have better and easier access.

This is an important project which will be completed in some form. The hobby and its base of knowledge has evolved considerbly since Lew's seminal effort. A published book can be done now with much less risk of instant obsolesence, especially if we stay away from "pricing" in it. Add some nice color pictures and Viola! we will have a nice permanent reference tool.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Richard- no harm intended towards Old Cardboard, but theoretically anyone can start a new project, and this one would be a little different. Perhaps writers would agree to give OC first crack at their work if that is their preference; I agree they might not sell as many back issues but I don't know if that is a big part of their business.

A far as VCBC is concerned, it has pretty much disappeared. I wrote an article for nearly every one of the early issues; I don't believe I signed them away, so I trust I haven't lost control of them. Many do need to be updated but aren't they still my articles?

Bobby has graciously offered to supply us with price information, and I never even considered if an encyclopedia should even address card prices. A book could never be updated, while an online compendium could be updated daily if needed. Just something else to consider along the way.

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Posted By: Richard Masson

Maybe I am wrong, but if you write an article that is published in VCBC (or Old Cardboard for that matter), in the absence of a written agreement, who owns the article?

If the authors own the articles, we're half way there.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Unless agreed to otherwise, if you send an article to a magazine for them to publish, they can, it is theirs. And you could publish it again. And they could again...

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Posted By: RC

I already like the site, nice resource for checking estimated value and previous sale prices of cards. It at least gives someone a working knowledge of a cards potential.

Looking forward to seeing it grow.

I also love Old Cardboard and believe they can co-exist.

RC